Moving AS

[Danny"TheKraken"Richardson]

Hey all,
A few years ago i proposed trying to get AS out of Big Bore. It was met with a 60-40 set of reviews mostly for but a strong against. With the recent results of Sebring, Summit, Road Atlanta, and now VIR, the topic has come up again.

It used to be a hard fought road to get to running nationals and even harder to get to the runoffs. With the current state of racing in the world the SCCA has made it so someone can get a license and in theory, go to the runoffs the same year.

In the big bore group this has led to a scenario where we are on track with cars that can go 50 mph faster on the straight than some AS cars and brake 300 ft deeper than all AS cars. It starting to get down right dangerous.

In most other classes they have resituated groups to prevent this massive disparity but I feel like we have been forgotten.

Now before, T2 was running the same lap times that we were and the concern was overlap. Nowadays, T2 is faster and in some cases almost 4 seconds a lap faster. (At VIR T2 was 1:57-1:58 and AS was 2:03-2:04)

What I would be pushing for is to move AS into the T2 STL STU T3 T4 group and suggest that T4 be moved to the same group as Bspec and Prod.

Now i know i havent thought of every angle for this yet and would love to have a healthy open discussion about it to better gauge how everyone feels before moving forward with letters, etc.

I know that in some cases the mid to back of the AS field ends up just turning laps at some of these races and may get an opportunity ti actually race someone now. (Not my words i have made some phone calls prior to this post).

I am planning to reach out to some of the members of the medium bore group and ask them what they think. I know that in the northeast there have been a few times we have tried this and it worked very well.

Would love to hear everyones thoughts, I am ashamed that I went to VIR and had 10 green flag laps in 2 races with both finishing under caution. (Similar scenario in Atlanta)

[DHRMX5]

As someone who has run Touring 4 for the last 12 years I am not interested in being in the Prod group. The cars run laps in different ways. I don't have an issue with AS running with the T cars.

[Danny"TheKraken"Richardson]

Originally Posted by DHRMX5

As someone who has run Touring 4 for the last 12 years I am not interested in being in the Prod group. The cars run laps in different ways. I don't have an issue with AS running with the T cars.

Thanks Dave. I will include this in the letter.

[PbFoot]

From a car damage standpoint, I believe the risk to AS cars would be higher in the T2, ST group than the Big Bore group. In Big Bore we start at the back and can request a split start if we want. Most multi car wrecks in my (vast) experience happen in the first lap or two. I like to be on the front row or the back row to start. We will not be on the front row in the T2 ST group, but in the top third meat grinder at the start.

I never have issues with GT1 or T1 cars lapping me if I watch my mirrors and flags. GT2 on the other hand has had some interesting drivers show up in the past few years.

[Danny"TheKraken"Richardson]

We had contact and the GT3 race intertwined in ours. With lap times being almost identical but in completely opposite areas of the track. We had contact and lost a car because of them being intertwined with us.

[jimwheeler]

I have always had a problem with DOT classes running with cars on true racing slicks. Like Danny mentioned, we do almost everything different, to end up with almost identical lap times.

[fastandyracing]

This was done at Sebring maybe 5 or 6 years ago, and I just got done running at PBIR a couple of weeks ago with the same grouping. I ran AS for about 10 years regionally and did the Daytona runoffs, have since converted to ITO and only running regionally, due to the lack of AS cars in the SE.

In any case, as a middle of the pack guy (compared to the national level guys) this grouping with the 'slower' cars causes some interesting situations. At Sebring, I was way faster in the straights, but they were faster in most of the corners and there were more of them. The fast AS guys, Tom Ellis and a couple of others, were easily able to gap the slower class cars and ran in clear track most of the race. I was mired in the midst of a herd of Miatas and other smaller cars, and if one got under me at corner entry (very often) then 3 or 4 would freight train me. Now I was 'off line' and it hurt my corner speed even more. It was some very hard racing, I could usually get a couple of them back before the next corner, but then I would get freight trained again.

once I was able to get them separated enough so that 3 or 4 couldn't get my me at corner entry I could pick them off in the straights and keep up a decent mid corner speed.

Pretty much same thing at PBIR, but a couple of miata drivers didn't seem to grasp the fact that I had to slow down for the corners, so I got center punched a couple of times at corner entry. Funny thing, when a miata hits a 3100 lb mustang the only thing that happens is it makes the mustang driver mad. i was tempted to give him a bump draft like he never had before, but just chose to blow by him on the straight.

It is fun being a 'fast' car after watching the mirrors for 10 years for GT1 cars, but its not perfect, and brings its own challenges.

[rx555]

As a current AS driver, I'd mostly be in favor of moving to the T/ST group. I say mostly because the car counts in that group can be double the big bore group.
As a former T4 driver, I wouldn't have been in favor of that class with Prod. As mentioned, they get their speed in different ways and their cars are so low, they can be hard to see. T4 in SM group would be the most similar, but also not likely. I'd be fine with running with T4 but not sure if they would be.

[Tim White]

Before this weekend I would have been indifferent but that changed after the Super Tour event in Hallett. We had 6 AS cars in the group and 28 total. Somehow I caught the slow cars at the exact same time the GT1 cars were catching me. I don't ever remember it being so chaotic as Saturday was. Of course, all the yellow flags didn't help either. I agree with the idea that DOT should be with DOT and slicks with slicks. I don't know if there is an ideal solution though.

[Danny"TheKraken"Richardson]

Hey Everyone,
We have landed on a letter that will be submitted to the BoD. I am looking for people to private message me their name number class and member number if they support the proposal.

Two Run Groups
T2 T3 AS T4 (Split start T2 T3 then AS T4)
STU STL Bspec.

Thank you