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Old 11-13-2016, 10:11 AM
aszilagyi aszilagyi is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Northville Mi.
Posts: 115

The saddest part.

There will be members who have lives outside the track.
That have put there hobby to sleep for the winter.

Only to be blindsided (this spring).
When they discover Their Club has dumped a Lead trophy on them!
For just having a dreamed about attending the Runoffs someday.
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Old 11-13-2016, 09:31 PM
fastandyracing fastandyracing is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Apopka FL
Posts: 545

Ok, lets look at this weight thing from another direction.

I am a fox body racer, mostly regional in the southeast, ran the runoffs at Daytona, thinking about Indy (who doesn't want to say they ran at Indy??).

Now I am not a small guy, lets say I will top 250 all geared up, and in my fox hatch I already have almost 100 lbs of lead, now I will have to add another 100 lbs?. Somethings not right here. If I were a young fit 150 pounder, I would have to add an extra 250 lbs???? does that make any sense???

FYI, I have done most of the things you can do to reduce my cars weight. Lexan hatch and side glass, superlight fiberglass hood, cut the door bars, etc. But with a 250 lb driver you shouldn't have to add 200 lbs of lead to a car to make weight, somethings wrong.

I was racing a Palm Beach this weekend with a buddy with a 95 Mustang, and we were talking about weight. After discussing it a little, he could easily take almost 100 lbs out of his car without spending a bunch of cash. Lexan back window, lighter hood, and a couple of other little things. And he is currently carrying about 30 lbs of weight to make sure he makes the 3300.

I am thinking we have been adding weight to these cars for years, but then allowing things that make the cars lighter (lexan, aluminum heads both come to mind).

I am curious, how many folks out there are carrying lead??

Is it time to drop car weights overall? That will make it easier on all of the drivetrain parts, brakes, tires, etc.

Now I still thing the Fox cars need a little help, the 200 lbs did not make them universally competitive at the runoffs, Ed is the only Fox driver to really challenge the Andy McD freight train. But if just about everyone is now having to add lead to make weight, is it time to do an overall eval of the car weights and drop them all a little??

Anybody out there thinking the way I am??

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Old 11-14-2016, 07:21 AM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 5,240

You have a point about overall weight. I have about 100# of lead in the GenIII Firebird. In addition, I run a full big cooler for the CoolShirt, even when I don't wear the shirt. I also run full fuel, for added ballast. I could, easily drop 100#.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:09 AM
Danny"TheKid"Richardson Danny"TheKid"Richardson is offline
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Join Date: May 2009
Location: Gaithersburg, MD
Posts: 451

We currently run 25lbs of led for when im driving the car. Im trying to lose 25 more lbs so i can put an additional 25 lbs somewhere strategic in the car.
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Old 11-14-2016, 09:38 AM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 810
Default outreach

Mark --

Thanks for the analysis on the dog boxes. We're planning on a talk about it tonight in our call.

Alex --

I'm hoping with monthly GCR updates and Fastrack online, and posts here where I am keeping people up to date and alerting people when stuff is coming, that we are reaching everyone we possibly can in the class. But, if you have a suggestion on better outreach, please let us know so we can implement better communication!

Andy --

Great idea on lowering weights, we'll be talking about that tonight. BTW, when I do get to drive the car, I weigh about 100 lbs less than Danny, so that means 5 lead bricks for me!

Thanks to everyone for keeping ideas flowing. It helps in discussion points every 2nd Monday of the month!

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Old 11-14-2016, 12:30 PM
PbFoot PbFoot is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 212

One other point on the Dog Boxes.
Spoke to a long time (now former AS racer) about the dog boxes. This guy has raced circle track and GT1 and used Dog Boxes in those cars.
He said when the Dog Box inclusion in AS came out that he thought it was a April fools joke.
He told me that these transmissions are expensive and require more maintenance (parts) than the T10, Tremec, or AutoGear.
He also said if driven to their full potential that you will lower your lap times with a corresponding erosion of reliability.

The inclusion of Dog Boxes to me just adds to the difficulty of attracting new people to the class and to the perception that you need to be very well off to go fast.

I like Andy's point on wt. I'm a 180# guy that runs a stroker motor Fox. My new min is 3500# but as we all know you don't race at minimum wt.

I will need to start races at about 3600#'s. Hell I'm going to need to start adding wt to the nose or I'm going to have the wt distribution of a 911, LOL.

Tom Himes
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:18 PM
fastandyracing fastandyracing is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Apopka FL
Posts: 545


I thought I was the only one running a stroker in the fox chassis.

I did it with gt40P iron heads to take advantage of the 150 lb weight break, so my current weight is 3250.

I came off the track last weekend at 3265 with about 4 gallons of fuel left.

If I went to the aluminum heads I would have to add even more weight due to the lighter heads! Then the extra 150, then the extra 100 for next year. I guess I would have to add almost 300 lbs next year if I was running the aluminum heads! Yikes
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Old 11-14-2016, 01:44 PM
scottdolsen scottdolsen is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 142

Fox notch. currently at 200#, with penalty 300#. If I built a stroker, +300 #.

I would need 600 # of lead. I did not want to disclose this info because I don't trust the SCCA. I am afraid they will take this info and use it against me by dictating were it will be placed.

But what do I care now? My car is for sale.
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:29 AM
Ken Felice Ken Felice is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 93
Default fox penalty

Talk of all this wt. add. sub. is making my head spin. All of these charts and info are great. now lets look a little closer at what you are not seeing. The drivers with dog box running up frt. John,Slow,Hosnie etc. they have always been up frt. not because of trans,car prep,practice,driver ability,research,etc.
And there are many more frt runners,with and with out dog box,is it the dog box??? Or a total package.
I know all of us would love to have 7 to 8 HP free.That is very poss.That is approx. 100lbs. Put a 100 on HP goes away take hundred off hp comes back. easy enough what do you want to do spend money to give away HP.
I think there should be reason to add and or take wgt. As Alex said.

Ken Felice
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Old 11-15-2016, 10:52 AM
Ted Johnson Ted Johnson is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 980
Default Dog boxes

The oversights of the past keep creeping back in don't they? Sold the idea dog boxes will be a "long run cost saver" and not a performance advantage according "expert data." I'm so happy American iron rule makers still have not allowed dog boxes and the s197 mustangs are classed with an alternate power to weight ratio putting those cars at a lower power to weight ratio. In other words the s197 carries more weight compared to the older cars. Ken's right. You need to look at the entire package. Now you are discussing lowering overall weights? I still have a dream a/s and a/i cars could co exist. Lower your engines performance, lower your over all weight accordingly. Improve your reliability and longevity. It really does work but the general attitude here is how easy it is to cheat. And you would be right. But if you trust the guys you race with it shakes out pretty good at the end of a race. So do you guys trust your local competition to bring a compliant car?

Last edited by Ted Johnson; 11-15-2016 at 11:05 AM.
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