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  #81  
Old 09-22-2013, 09:55 PM
AS_74
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Default Hi Pam

Hi Pam,
I appreciate your offer and maybe you feel this would be a make up for how you treated me in the tech shed in 2009, but that is not needed as I have excepted your apology for comments and mistreatment you gave me at that time.

That's was in the past and we both moved on.

But Pam, I cannot tell you in words how pleased I am that you understand and agree that these boosters are indeed damaged. Damaged from the process of checking these boosters for compliance with a go no go gauge purchased from BLP and used by Scca officials/tech personnel. Coincidentally the same company that build the carb used on my #74 A/S Mustang.

Like your carb my carb is approximately 8-10 years old.

Your admission that the boosters are damaged is relevant to the fact that the gauge testing was more than torturous to the boosters.

Point being that when using a go no go gauge or any testing equipment, if the part being tested is also being damaged, it should be clear to all involved that the testing tools are being used improperly.

By squeezing, forcing or causing any damage to part being tested it should become obvious to the testing tech that the part is either longer, wider, ect. than the gauge being used for testing, and/or just looking for a result that suits there interest.

Short and sweet, that part is compliant.

Since you offered to pay and make this right, I would prefer to draw upon your knowledge as a Scca Steward to inform me and all, when it is o/k to deny a competitor in a mechanical protest not to be allowed to inspect, watch, listen and see in person the testing equipment and process being used to determine the compliance of a part in question.

As you are aware there is a written/formal process as to how to compile information to be fair to ALL the competitors not just the protested competitor.

Maybe you can also tell me why I was denied by the SOMs and the appeals court this access as well as the option to use my own testing equipment, as this is also part of a mechanical protest process.

Additional you stated you use a 20 year old carb. I know you haven't changed looks since your 20s, but I have and look slightly different. The begging question is, does your carb look the same as the Scca carb provided at the 2013 runoffs?

I feel using your steward knowledge would save you a few bucks and just cost you a little time and might enlighten many.

As you know, it may not be possible to put a cost of a earned Championship.

Thanks for your concern of my damaged parts, but it goes much deeper than that. Tom
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  #82  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:12 PM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
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Default Debates

Tom --

I don't wish to get into a long discussion here, in fact, I need to leave as soon as possible for Columbus, OH, because my mother is dying. So, I will be short and sweet.

In 09, I gave you a look and a few sentences to show my emotion about how things went. I feel anyone has that right, and yes, we talked and got past that. Other than that, I didn't "treat" you in any way, since, I was recused from the AS tech because of my connection to the class.

My statement to offer to replace your boosters was nothing more than that. I can't speculate the condition of your boosters before or after inspection. I take your word for it that SCCA damaged them, so I offered to help out with replacement, that is all.

I can't tell you why you were denied this or that with stewards or SOMs, or whoever. I wasn't involved, so I have nothing to base a comment on.

As for my carb, I already have plans to request that SCCA take a look at mine. Since the motor is probably toast, we'll be pulling it soon, and I will have my engine builder look at the carb, and then, if SCCA is willing, I will send it off and have it checked. No way I want to have anything amiss with any part on my car. If that plan doesn't work, I'll devise some other way to have it checked, or simply get a new one. As far as I know, no one has done anything to it, but, lots of hands have touched it over the 21 years, so anything is possible.

Now, I have to go start to get things here prepared for me to leave. That also includes, if you haven't heard, ensuring that Doug can do the things he wants to do while I am gone. And, that, because, he has Front Temporal Dementia, a disease that is not Alzheimers, but causes severe communications issues.

So, you can see I have a lot on my plate and will bow out of researching your issues.

My best to you in figuring all this out. Pam
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  #83  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:43 PM
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wre46 wre46 is offline
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Pam, with the responses I have seen you post in the last few threads, I feel it may be time to have you removed from the ASAC comittee so you can deal with your "personnel issues" Tom has every right to see what the "once a year experts" did to his carb. Funny, they showed me and brought over 15 people to make a desision on my carb, which had shorter boosters than the "brand new" carb with different style boosters than the 30 year old 4776-1, which BTW pass a complete inspection in 2010.

Tom, I agree with you completely.

I was allowed to ask the tech people about the tools, shown them. ( I was looking for wear marks or any markings on them). There was no way to see if any of these tools were in spec or measured. To make mattesr worse, when I was up front near the gas testing station talking to the driver advisor, the start of the Spec Racer Ford race had a big crash. EVERY single tech person was up front watching. No one was watching the tools, carbs or the impounded cars. It was a nightmare. Once again there were 100's of folks in the impound area with out proper creds. The tech guys looked like they did damage Tom's carb, but more so his pride and reputation. If you want to reimburise Tom for his issues, then write a check for $50K for a season worth of work, $10 for the boosters plus labor, and his tow fund, which is revolked when you are DQed from this event.

Since you had a horse in this race, you should have not been anywhere in the tech shed unless your car was in Impound.

These are strong words, but the truth hurts. As you have known me for years, I speak my mind and I do not care if it hurts someone feelings. This is almost a professional sport as this level and once again we are aembarrased class at the Biggest Event in SCCA Rinoffs history. Where are these tools all year long and why was NO tech done at any of the Majors during the entire season.

Folks, you can agree or disagree, but all the dogs in the fight this year can step up and tell the AS community just how well the officials handled both on track and off track event.

As in any big company, it is time for a reorg.
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Jeff Werth
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  #84  
Old 09-22-2013, 10:47 PM
thomas toth thomas toth is offline
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Tom,

If this is all that you and Jeff got bounced for you both got a major screwing! Plain cheating (porting, compression, ratios, etc.) is one thing but a part that a driver can't measure and have a specification to compare to is plain nuts. Does anyone have information showing there has never been any variance in the part's specification in the past 40 or so years that the carb has been in production?

This is like the throttle plate screws all over again.

Great drive!

Tom
#38 Camaro
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  #85  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:20 PM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
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Default My plans

Jeff --

If my personal issues hinder my ability to serve effectively, I will resign. However, my SCCA work actually is helpful to me, and so far, my effectiveness seems to be good and appreciated.

I was in Impound helping Jim Wheeler, as was Danny. Maybe not as much as Danny, but, some. I did not see anything done to anyone's cars, as, by the time I got there, everything with everyone else's cars had been done. I also did not go talk to anyone who was in the process, only those that were complete.

So, since we are speaking our minds here, I'll speak mine and head off to help my Mom. Whatever happened in the tech shed with both of you is between you and the SCCA, it has nothing to do with me or anyone else. If you all wish to discuss it here, you certainly have that right. But, there is another side to the story and that may appear soon.

Yes, the truth hurts. And, I know you guys are hurting. You spent a lot of money and got DQ'd. Well, I spent a lot of money and lost an engine, just when things got to working and Danny's driving talents are getting much better. But, I'm not here to complain about my problems with the car this year. I'm looking forward to clearing up my problems for 2014 and doing better, as is Danny.

And, quite frankly, I don't need your guidance on what to do with my life. I'll figure it out myself. So please don't tell me what you think I should do. I certainly don't do that to you.

Off to get some rest, Pam
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  #86  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:23 PM
AS_74
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Default Jeff/Pam

Hey Jeff,
While you were watching the techs measure your boosters, did they have to force the tool over your boosters? Am I right that all the damage to my boosters was done by forcing a compliant tool over it? Any chance you over heard or witnessed something I'm missing? Thanks Tom


Hi Pam,
I wasn't trying to debate anything. The correct answer was simply that NO competitor should ever be denied what is written in the gcr, Opps Manaul, or any other process available to us.Tom
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  #87  
Old 09-22-2013, 11:41 PM
AS_74
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Default Thanks Tom

Hey Tom,
Thanks, The car ran great. Did You catch that the carb was built from BLP the company that supplied the tools to SCCA and caused the damage while being forced over those?

Valve lift, exhaust and intake, flywheel weight,pressure plate, cubic inches, compression, internal port viewing for excessive porting were all tested, and all passed. As a matter of fact, the first day I was told ALL carb go no go gauges passed. The only issue was not enough extra flashing that was on the new holley carb. You won't find that on the older parts. Then they started chewing on the boosters. Screwed? You bet. Tom
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  #88  
Old 09-23-2013, 01:45 AM
mr2racer mr2racer is offline
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I think they got it right!

Started going to the big show as a crewcheif in 1987. Never drove at the National level.
But as a team member. My record at the Runoffs is better than most.

Missed 3 years attending the championship.
And missing the podium 4 times.
Even did one year (@ Mid-O) worked on 3 cars that finished on the box.

Doing the math (I really only bothered to count the “9 gold metals".
That makes 22 visits to the shed.
(In 4 different classes)(SSC, GP, T1 & AS).

A few times got sent home sad & disappointed (without a trophy).
Yes it is tough just getting to the big race.
And it is even Tougher confirming your equipment is in full compliance.

Fact is, in this club it is the team’s responsibility to confirm every part of the puzzle is correct.
And there in no compliance check-list you can down-load.
Sadly not every supplier of race parts will read the book and play cars in the same way we do.

I like and study performance tuning on all parts of the machine. Fact is there are easy modifications that make power. Like shortening booster ventures or re-shaping the internal and or exterior surfaces. Just to name a few.
The reason why our class uses a stock carb rule? It is an easy to measure restrictor.
Simple fact, inspectors are not going to, and will never rule on every single component every year.

And I feel confident the experienced AS guys. Know that carb tuners can supply a blueprinted carb. That is normally a good value. For power and service. Over buying box stock.
It is also quite clear those same carb tuners. Also sell units that need to be better than blueprinted \ For non-AS users. And for racers that attempt to lean on the rules. Hoping they will not be found outside the limits. Same carb tuners also make tools. Used for scrutinizing rules at all levels.

I hope everyone that was disappointed in AS Tech 2013 – Made an honest mistake. Buying or tuning there rides.
But sadly my gut is telling me it is a 66 / 33% deal.

Been on both sides of this fence. Disappointed and happy with the outcome in the post-race inspection. Inside SCCA Club racing, Trans-Am, CART, MIRA & NASCAR.
I think they got the final result correct!
Saw the process first hand. Was Not executed well during the appeals process, But the final result was found.
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  #89  
Old 09-23-2013, 09:48 AM
ASfan
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Bottom line is Tom Sloe admitted to shaving the boosters to square them with the venturies. The GCR prohibits any modifications to the boosters. No tech official prevented Tom from observing. More later.

Last edited by ASfan; 09-23-2013 at 10:19 AM.
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  #90  
Old 09-23-2013, 10:19 AM
DSeefeldt DSeefeldt is offline
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As Paul Harvey us to say, "Now for the rest of the story". This is getting interesting.

Darryl
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