Go Back   American Sedan Forum > Main American Sedan Categories > American Sedan Rules

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-12-2019, 11:38 AM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 820
Default June 2019 Prelim Tech Bulletin, My Response to Leter 25885

This is the letter I just submitted to the CRB/ASAC about this weight change for the Fox Body:

So, where is the data to support this change? The recent Blackhawk Farms race has a new AS record for Brian Long, in his Fox Body at the 3250 weight. In addition, observation posted by Scott Sanda on asedan.net, indicates that the car is a very well developed chassis and that class leaders probably would not have been as fast.

Please reconsider this change until you have valid data to support it.

Thank you, Pam Richardson


Weight was changed from 3250 to 3150, effective June 1. If you have an opinion either way, I recommend submitting a letter. Pam
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-12-2019, 09:33 PM
nomics nomics is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 131
Default

Maybe Brian is just a fast driver. Did anyone think of that? Just assume he has an advantage? There's other cars with more advantage IMO. Cadillac and 4th gen RP Camaro come to mind.
__________________
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-12-2019, 10:22 PM
nomics nomics is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 131
Default

And how many track records does a Fox Mustang have? Any car with a track record gets penalized? Different platforms do well at different types of tracks. This is not a new concept.
__________________
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-13-2019, 09:26 AM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 820
Default Balance of Performance

Matt --

Competition adjustments are not penalties. When you combine a fast driver with a well prepared platform, you find out what that combination can do. That combination enables BOP, in that, it shows what the very best of a platform is capable of. BOP is intended to balance among the platforms so that one or two do not become outliers in the class.

It would be remiss to approve a BOP based on only half of that combination. Such as, a less than fully prepared platform, or a driver still working on the up curve.

Such BOP adjustments, at least when I was involved, HAD to be based on data. That is why I asked what data was used for this decision, since, we have seen very little of this car/driver combo since the last BOP adjustment.

Now, having said all of that from the past, I can not speak to the now or the future of how BOP adjustments are made.

If you think there are cars that our currently outliers, write letters to the CRB/ASAC requesting a review of data.

Pam
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:01 PM
Scott Sanda Scott Sanda is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 490
Default

Matt,

Hell yes he is a fast driver. That is 50% of the point. There are 2 fox's that are that developed. His, and Ed's. Both with guys who could jump into a different equally developed type of car, and also be bleeding fast. Hell, Ed did that with Chris P's car at Road America. He ran runoffs front runner qual times in a car not set up to suit his driving.

However, it was a VERY well built and prepped car.

That is the other 50%. The developed level of the car. My car is arguably the most trick of the V's. Drew, had he been in it, might have won last year. But then again, his car is also very, very developed, and he was outran by 2 different FP cars. Drew is a 1%er. When John Buttermore Jr, with multiple National Championships, says that "Drew is faster than I ever was" you can be pretty certain of the skill level.

Your car is not a 1%er. Just like I am far from a 1%er, skill wise. You need both to turn the types of times Brian did.

A number of people choose to believe we added the 100 pounds "just to keep Andy and John up front". That insults me. We had data. We compared the data. (We didn't do the scrubbing, it was overlaid and scrubbed by the National data tech). We based decisions on that.

Steve Ott just set a new track record at Pit in a Fox.

We, the old Adhoc, did not put in SMG. We did not give cams to already front running cars. We did not play favorites. I guess that is why the old Ad hoc was disbanded by the new, "friends and family" CRB.

Now that the 100 pounds is out, are you going to come out and run?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-13-2019, 06:24 PM
pmadden pmadden is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 19
Default

Steve Ott ran an s197 chassis at Pitt race.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:31 PM
thomas toth thomas toth is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 664
Default

Better add 100# to that one too....and 1,000 to Andy's car. Why is it for 15+ years the fox body was considered the bottom of the bunch now that 2 individuals put an enormous amount of effort into their cars to make them front runners we want to slow them down? Tell me if I'm wrong but aren't they narrow with poor suspension geometry and bad aero. Maybe there driving skills and level of prep and innovation are simply better.

Tom
#38 Camaro
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-13-2019, 07:58 PM
nomics nomics is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 131
Default

Scott,
Whether or not I come out is more based on my financial situation than the rules. For the record I put the 100 lbs and ran the car both times they were added. I still feel like the second time 100 was added to the Fox it was BS.

I do feel that the old ASAC, Adhoc, CRB whatever they are called did a better job than the present ones. With the new one it seems like we don't even know they exist until another prelim comes out on the SCCA website. Also the new guys are making rules for their own benefit like the guy giving himself a 40hp cam unjustified. And the SMG thing is a total joke the way it currently sits. Just the way I happen to see it.
__________________
Matt
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-13-2019, 08:02 PM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 820
Default Car builds and fast drivers

Tom --

Recall that a quality build of a platform with a fast driver shows what the platform is really capable of. If there was nothing at the top in a Fox body for 15 years, no one until those two figured out what the quality build in a Fox is/was.

What I can say is that the former ASAC did do a lot of systems research on the Fox and found a lot to be had. And a lot of advantages that may or may not be reasonably obvious. For instance, the Fox has the best ability to build a functional splitter. When AS created all the chassis mod rules, the Fox body had a great opportunity to improve its chassis to the level of other AS cars. It also has a reasonably low (not the lowest in the class) drag coefficient and with a smaller cross sectional area, lower drag than many of the cars, aka, it has to push less air out of the way. And there is more the former ASAC figured out. I'm sure that Ed and Brian have figured it out as well.

Pam
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-14-2019, 01:01 AM
86notch 86notch is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 5
Default

As a foxbody driver that just spent the weekend in an s197 chassis I really have to say my chassis and suspension geometry is literally light years away from the s197. Pam I understand what your saying about the aero of a foxbody but let’s be honest the problem with our entire class is how we get the rear end to work. If you add 400lbs of downforce up front (way more then any foxbody splitter could ever do) that isn’t going to help the car work better in the rear, which after this weekend I learned is way more important to going fast. Furthermore downforce up front is nearly worthless if you don’t have the equivalent in the rear. Brian Long knows how to build a racecar and has had time to get that car worked out, he also seems to have a top notch engine with the trap speeds we saw at Indy. Why not work on getting these motors under control and let our narrow track width foxbody’s have 100lbs. Port volumes and intake manifolds would be a good start IMO

Steve Ott

Last edited by 86notch; 05-14-2019 at 01:02 AM. Reason: Added my name
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.