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Old 08-23-2016, 06:46 PM
MattChoj MattChoj is offline
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I feel like I have to reply here if only to clarify my position as I am mentioned above by Tom Sloe - - but first (and pertinent) to this thread…

I am an NEW member (one of the few) to AS - - I started three years ago in a Full Prep (Camaro) and built a new CTS-V RP with many friends in 2014. I raced the CTS many times with success (local and regional wins) but unfortunately ran out of time this year (and quite possibly talent as well) to drive at the runoffs. But, a good friend of mine (Anton) will be racing it at the run-offs and I look forward to meeting each of you.

As I see it - - build cost is certainly one element keeping people out (trust me - the CTS-V is an expensive race car!!). BUT, the cost and TIME of maintain and prepping a car is mind boggling if you are not a mechanic (which I am not). I think I am one of the few drivers who have run BOTH FP and RP cars. And, after running both, I can state that RP is a much more “user friendly” option and I believe needs to be embraced if AS is to grow…… just my two cents.

Now, to my clarification from Tom Sloes comment - - my primary contention is that ANY RULE change 4 weeks prior to the RUNOFFS is too late. I have scoured the site looking for a cut-off date for rules changes and can’t find one. If there isn’t one, and we can just change rules “whenever” – then I’m just venting….. Bear with me, I’ll live with it…... Here are the facts:

Fact: Pam’s dates above (to the best of my knowledge) are correct.

Fact: The GCR for 2015 had two separate CTS-V line items 1) one for 2004 – 05 models with an LS6 and a weight of 3520 and 2) one for 2006 – 2007 models with an LS2 and a weight of 3570.

Fact 2: The GCR for 2016 (up to and including the August publication) combined all years CTS-V into one line item with EITHER and LS2 or LS6 in any model year (you can run either engine) with ONE weight listed as 3250.

Fact 3: On 8/11 (a month before the runoffs) the AS community stated that a “error was corrected” and a 50 LBS weight penalty will be added to the LS2’s. (NOTE: Admittedly, I didn’t (and don’t) check Fast Track regularly)

Fact 4: From the SCCA website Definition of “Errors and Omissions” that can be corrected—“An E&O is just that, a correction of a typo, misplaced decimal points (95" brake rotors on a Bugeye!), or recently received information from a manufacturer providing missing or incorrect information in current publications.”……… I do not believe this is the case here…… 352 vs 3520 would be an error… this is not.

My contention: The 3520 was a reasonable number that the AS community chose when combining the line items (it was, after all, one of the options in 2015) and not a mistake. This is a VERY late change to the rules prior to the run-offs when we are all scrambling to get ready. There is no “correction” to be made and the 2016 GCR should stand. I do realize this (weight) will probably not affect the finish order of my car, but it does lead to time (which I am always short of) and effort for me to make it compliant when it WAS compliant all year……..We need stable rules, especially around the runoffs. Hope that clarifies (for what it’s worth) my position.

By the way – this will be my first and last comment on the matter - - it’s EXHAUSTING talking about rules!! I look forward to meeting you at the run-offs – look for the guys wearing purple.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:01 PM
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Like I said earlier, you got screwed. There is a date. I'll look for it. Now this is the second year in a row that a rule change happened this late. Last year was a"safety" issue rule change. I hope someone will post that carb rule and Pam's statements attached with it. Not sure if wearing purple and not running Hoosiers is allowed. I move we make a new rule. Tom
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:07 PM
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Matt, don't forget to put that 50 on the left front. Thanks
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Old 09-08-2016, 07:29 PM
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Mustang Alli Mustang Alli is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: SF East Bay
Posts: 26
Default The future of American Sedan, what should it look like and how do we get there?

A lot of the discussion in this thread has surrounded the rules as they have changed over the years. The class has been around since 1993 and the rules have changed a lot in that time. The rules are what they are right now but the question Pam has put to us and the Ad Hoc Committee is where do we go with American Sedan from here?

This forum is built by people who care about American Sedan and have a vested interest in keeping the class alive. Do we let it fizzle out and become a regional only class or lost all together? Do we try to merge it with another class that may or may not welcome us? Or do we find out why the class has declined in popularity and how to attract new competitors? I for one would like to have more people to play with in the class and not have to change or retire my little red baby.

In the SCCA alone there are over 30 class options to choose from. I have asked myself why are there less of us American Sedan racers each year? Why do I continue to compete on the weekends and do I think other people would want to race in AS for the same reasons? What is it that draws people to other classes and not mine? Is it the perceived or actual cost of our class? Should I move to another class that has a larger entry and more competition? The Ad Hoc Committee can help answer these questions and give us a prospect for the future.

I want American Sedan to continue in a format similar to what we have but I am willing to make compromises if it will bring better and more competition for us all.
Allison Palitz
#82 '87 Mustang
San Fran Region
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Old 09-08-2016, 10:35 PM
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wre46 wre46 is offline
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Location: Silver Spring, MD
Posts: 621

Originally Posted by AS_74 View Post
Now does anyone wonder why A/S class has less competitors competing. It's NOT the cost of an engine. It's getting screwed by the constant changing and having SPEC parts without any specs, Etc.

Yes there was a disquaiification without merit. Mine. 2013 Give it back.

Now they just screwed the Caddy after the deadline for rule changes and on and on. Not sure if Matt caught this or not. Tom
I agree with Tom. rules and specs that magically appeared in the tech shed. You can re-instate my metal also, but I guess they decide who wins and losses. I loved racing my AS car, it was fast, loud, and handled great, put the rules and the post race inspection was an embarrassment. How do you fix it? Sell your car and go somewhere else, or don't run up front. Sorry, the truth hurts and I have not raced with SCCA since.
Jeff Werth
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:36 AM
PbFoot PbFoot is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 236

Maybe someone can post data that could help shed more light on the AS turnout question.

Is AS participation down relative to SCCA Club Racing as a whole in the past 5-10 years?

If yes to above, is it a lot or a little?

What is the average age of an AS racer, and how does that compare to other classes?

If there had never been a NASA CMC or AI would AS have continued to grow? (Hard to answer I know)

What attracts more Pony Car racers to NASA than the SCCA?
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Old 09-09-2016, 10:46 AM
jimwheeler jimwheeler is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 5,275

Actually, ASedan is holding its own as far as popularity goes. It was 10th in 2013 of the 28 Majors classes, up from something like 18th in 2012. In 2014 we dropped a couple of spots to 13th, but were back up to 10th in 2015. Not sure where we ended up for 2016, but we are either in the top 10 or fairly close.

p.s. to Jeff. There was no medal to be reinstated, as your carb was found non-compliant and you were never awarded a medal. Let it go...It will be better for your mental health.
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:50 PM
PamRichardson PamRichardson is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Rockville, MD
Posts: 863
Default Another survey?

A few years ago, we did a survey to see what cars/format people are running.

We can always conduct another survey, not sure if asking personal info would be appropriate, but, if it is what the class wants, we can make an effort in that direction.

Participation in the Majors can be found here:


If the data is complete for 2016, AS is 16th.

All conferences can grow. The lower ones currently are Western and Mid-States, then Southeastern. Most entries were in Northeastern, then Northern.

We can all jump in, especially on asedan.net, and encourage people to attend. If you know who your missing drivers are, you can contact them and encourage them to rejoin us!

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