AS (Limited Prep) Question

First off I want to say hello to all, my name is Keith. I have been lurking on this site for about a month learning about some of the different aspects of the AS class as I am looking to get involved in club racing in the 2012 season. Right now I am in search of what class and what car I would like to run.

My two best options right now is a T2 prepped 01 Formula built and campained by Phoenix who is literally right down the road from me. Like any of their cars cage and other fabrication is top notch but it is in the old T2 prep. From my readings this car would be legal as is but to be in the same time zone as an AS car it would need full bushings, sways, springs, shocks, and brakes. This car is appealing to me as I have a lot of spare parts for it from my built 98 T/A daily driver including but not limited to (front contol arms, rear arms, brake booster&master, wheels, etc.)

My other option is a damaged 05 V-6 CTS that a friend of mine has a line on for real cheap. This car appeals to me as my girlfriend's summer DD is an 04 CTS-V which is now eligable as a limited prep car. I love the way this car handles and although I don't have any spares for this car it would be fun as hell.

The big question with the CTS is I don't know if it would be legal to take a V-6 car and using factory CTS-V parts make it a V. I know a good bit about the V's so I know how much of a hassle it would be to convert it as far as locating parts and the like so that is not my question. My question is whether or not it is legal to start with a V-6 car and am I allowed to run a stand alone ecu and totally rewired car. This may be a question for someone that knows more about T-2 cars but I like how friendly and knowledgeable you guys are so I figured I would start here.

If anyone can think of any rule snaffu's I could run into with said conversion please let me know and you can be as long-winded and thorough as me, I don't mind. Any thoughts or ideas would be greatly appreiciated and thanks in advance. Keith


PS: Just thought about if it would be OK to ditch the Drive-By-Wire throttle body in favor of a cable unit or if I would need to maintain the OE throttle body with the stand alone?

Welcome Keith. Phoenix builds a nice car. Depending on how long the F body has been off the track, it will need some updating to be successful in T2 as that class has changed a lot in the past 3-5 years.

As far as the conversion from a V6 CTS to a CTSV..........it will not be cost effective for you to do that. You would have to change out all the drivetrain, electronics, computers, brakes, fuel delivery system etc. You would be fighting bugs for the first few seasons. John Buttermore is a friend of mine and a GM Engineer. He successfully campaigned a CTS-V in T2 and knows more about them than anyone. His old car was purchased by Scott Sanda and will now be raced in T2 and AS. Mark and Jordan Sandridge races a pair of them at the Runoffs back in Ohio. Jordan was flipped and his car destroyed, Don Knowles got taken out in his CTSV........there were a bunch of other wrecks and Mark drove on to the win from 7th or 8th place. My .02.........I would not even consider converting a V6 car.

On the limited prep cars, you need to keep the drive by wire. The torque management car be programmed out which will allow "real time" full throttle just as I did on the GTO and John did to the Caddy.

You also have to run the stock exhaust manifolds and the factory air box.

One more thought..........the cost of operating the Fbody for a season (as well as parts) will be cheaper than the CTS-V. I raced the Fbody (01 Formula) in T2 from late 02 until begining of 2005. It was one of the best cars. I loved it.

[jimwheeler]

Converting a T2 car to AS means you must retain the T2 drive train. If the car was not legal for T2, it would not be legal for AS. I do not believe you could take a V6 car and convert it to become a legal T2 car. I may be wrong on that, but I don't think so. Anyway, I agree with CB, I doubt the amount of work would be worth it, in any case.
wheel

both T2 and AS list the CTS-V. In my opinion, the V6 car is not a CTS-V and therefore would not be allowed in either class.

Wheeler is correct. Several T2 Fbodys were built out of wrecked V6 cars because the beginning cost was cheaper. Overall they costed more in the long run by the time everything was converted. Keep in mind, the Fbody with one computer was relatively easy to convert, but the CTSV was one of the most advanced computer controlled cars that GM had ever built up to that point. I can't remember the exact number but I believe they had 5 to 8 computers on board that all had to work together for the car to even start. My GTO had 3.

Wheeler is also correct that the vin number would have to reflect that it started life as a CTSV rather than a V6 to be legal in T2 (and thus AS). I know it sounds stupid but if you win against the wrong person that is not as big of a fan about you winning.........they could cause you some problems and then you have a car that you can't race anywhere.

[Scott Sanda]

Keith,

Run the firebird. Don't do a thing to it for the first season. You'll still have fun. Then make informed decisions on upgrades.

Whatever you do, don't convert the v6 CTS. it'll be a nightmare.

Scott

[Danny"TheKraken"Richardson]

unless your cts was the new 2011 ctsv with the LSA motor pumping 556 hp. We will have to have you add about 2 tons.

[jimwheeler]

We will allow in the 556 hp car, but it will be required to tow a Miata. A second driver, for the Miata, is optional.
wheel

[Danny"TheKraken"Richardson]

Yeah but this guy has to be the driver of the miata: