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jimwheeler
06-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Phillip Smith, who attended the national at MidO yesterday, said that Carey Grant won over a field of 7 or so cars in a heavy rain. Phillip, further details, please.
wheel

smithpr
06-04-2007, 02:41 PM
Guys:

I got up early and headed off to Mid Ohio to watch the race. My car is in St. Louis getting ready for the Sprints so I was not racing.

Very intersting race.

Sloe had the Pole with a 1:38.644. Way under the track record.
John Lechner was second with a 1:41.825 and the rest of the field was as follows:
Rich Jones
Mark Muddiman
Ken McVicker
John Von Kluge
Carey Grant
Scott Schweitzer
Jon Ricker

It rained about 8:00 then stopped. The guys were having major issues with what tires to run. About 1/2 the field was on wets and then they delayed the start and it started to dry out. Many racers then changed to drys including Tom Sloe amoung others. At the 5 minute mark the sky's opened up into a total down pour. By then most people were stuck on dry's with the exception of Carey Grant who had stayed on wets.

The raced started in a total rain storm and cars were going off everywhere. Carey started last in the group and was in 6th overall and first in class by the 3rd lap. The rain let up but Carey had a big lead and it was not close.

Great job Carey.

JH was running the T3 Cobalt and made the switch to drys right before the start. He drove an amazing race. He finished first in class and 4th in group on drys in a total rain storm. He looked great in the rain and was always pushing the car.

Philip

jimwheeler
06-04-2007, 02:45 PM
Carey, congratulations. And thanks, Phil, for the report.
wheel

socalta
06-04-2007, 03:12 PM
yup ..thanks Phil for the report.... good stuff

Mark Allen
06-04-2007, 04:27 PM
Sloe had the Pole with a 1:38.644. Way under the track record.

That is just stupid fast on the long course.

Mark

jimwheeler
06-04-2007, 04:34 PM
Glad we added the 100#!

kbsmith1
06-04-2007, 04:47 PM
What is the difference between the long course, and the course used
for the Runoffs before they were moved to Topeka?

What was previous track record for the long course?

t4wallace
06-04-2007, 04:48 PM
I originally had no comment.

Then I was left with the obvious: the old trick of a 100# in the right place makes a car go .7 secs faster at Mid Ohio too.

EDIT part 1: Kudos to C. Grant. Thanks for the report Philip. (the more worthy content)
EDIT part 2: Philip, feel free to leave the JH non-AS gloss for the GM press release corps. (the less-worthy content)

t4wallace
06-04-2007, 04:51 PM
What is the difference between the long course, and the course used
for the Runoffs before they were moved to Topeka?

What was previous track record for the long course?
Short course removes the turn 2-3 combo of the keyhole and replaces with a straight.

Previous record, according to Ted, was 39.348 held by Sloe (set in 05).

Racetex
06-04-2007, 05:04 PM
New surface!!

Scott Schweitzer
06-04-2007, 05:12 PM
Not to ruin another good Chevy vs Ford disparity thread (is there any other type), but the track is much faster now with the flat curbs and new pavement.

Hats off to Mr. Grant for the win and to all that braved those conditions. I didn't like the prospect of a GT1 car on rains coming up on me with a 100+ mph closing speed when I couldn't see out the rear window, so I pulled in.

Live to fight another day. I really wish we got to run there more than once a year. It is a great track.

jimwheeler
06-04-2007, 05:14 PM
I think Philip said they ran with the keyhole chicane. And, yes, the course has been re-paved.
wheel

Jerry Post
06-04-2007, 05:53 PM
Congratulations to Tom Sloe who knew exactly where to put the extra 100#s in order to run faster than a Silver Bullet.:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Ted Johnson
06-04-2007, 07:42 PM
Short course removes the turn 2-3 combo of the keyhole and replaces with a straight.

Previous record, according to Ted, was 39.348 held by Sloe (set in 05).


You know more about track records and AS results than anyone on the planet Wallace.... You have trap speed data and the like. Don't shove that on me. I'm just a midiv guy trying to learn how to set up my car. Behave or I'll sic Kyle on you.... Kyle should be nice to me for the next week since I have the tequilla.

Talladega
06-05-2007, 01:00 AM
Guess that is why we need the rain dances,
No HP/TQ and not upsetting the chassie, is were the GM now works,,,
Oh hell, I won't start, i'll just be inn margrittia ville and say , we just can't driveum like the fomoco guys,,,or set um up,,,,WTF
I new enought to stay on the porch,,
jt

smithpr
06-05-2007, 10:24 AM
Tom:

I did not mean to offend with the JH comments. But if you were there it was an amazing thing to watch.

I was not trying to be a JH cheerleader and I know he can be beaten but is was an impressive drive.

Philip

t4wallace
06-05-2007, 11:05 AM
Tom:

I did not mean to offend with the JH comments. But if you were there it was an amazing thing to watch.

I was not trying to be a JH cheerleader and I know he can be beaten but is was an impressive drive.

Philip
Not offended. Guess I needed to include one of these: :rolleyes:. But that's what he SHOULD do with all the time he has in one of those cars doing SS development.

Now, I would have been impressed if he was doing it in reverse :laughing:

t4wallace
06-05-2007, 01:36 PM
New surface!!
Jeff is right to remind us the new surface is now showing the additional grip it was apparently hiding last year. And it appears to still be hiding the grip from the slick-tire community. The street tire classes on the other hand...

From this weekend in group 1 alone:
AS record went down .7 secs.
T1 record went down .7 secs.
T2 was 1 sec faster
T3 was a whopping 2 secs. faster
A good GT1 went .4 secs slower than the record

Looking at the classes with new records, the track was "about" .7-1.0 seconds faster.

So that leaves us with the original point: the 100# has made no difference in the AS class disparity after the 5th race.

Maybe someone should encourage Sloe to adjust his pace. :laughing:

Andy Jones
06-05-2007, 01:59 PM
Careful Tom...

As I recall, I heard somewhere... "Qualifying could represent the fastest ultimate lap and is an accepted measure by some. I still maintain the fastest race lap is a more suitable measure. Yes, Q time is a usable tool, but not totally reflective of the entire package/capability of a given car/driver. We need to look at the whole picture here. Plus, what I see so far is Fords are going faster in races than in qualifying and always measurably faster than GM when it really matters: in the race."

I know it was a wet race and the guy who made the lucky tire choice won so the race results don't really tell us anything (not to deminish Carey's win), but that doesn't mean the qualifying times become more relavent, does it? Also, lets not base this on one fast Mustang, like you haven't allowed us to base things on one fast Firebird for the past 3-4 years.


Andy (ducking for cover)

Racetex
06-05-2007, 03:41 PM
Tw I see it a different way. Take the drivers that set the fast times vs what they did last year on the new surface. Bill B ran 1.5 secs faster then his best last year. David P also ran close to 2 secs faster then before. Tom only went .7 faster then his record. I would say that the 100 lbs did make a difference.

t4wallace
06-05-2007, 04:33 PM
Andy (ducking for cover) Very :laughing:

Incoming :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Careful Tom...I am being careful. Careful not to buy into "there isn't a performance disparity" and that the "100# was/is going to fix it" (not that it is/was ever meant to the fix all). I agree there are many reasons to be careful using this Ford combo as the benchmark. But until proven otherwise, that combo was on pole at the Runoffs and has run races with the wt. change in effect allowing the comparison to similar events from 2006.

Keep me honest. Seriously. Show me how what I see/have said really isn't happening or has happened.

I know it was a wet race and the guy who made the lucky tire choice won so the race results don't really tell us anything (not to deminish Carey's win), but that doesn't mean the qualifying times become more relavent, does it? Also, lets not base this on one fast Mustang, like you haven't allowed us to base things on one fast Firebird for the past 3-4 years.

I agree the race lap times from this weekend really mean nothing as it relates to the performance. I'm in now way saying "let's go with Q times"...

I mentioned the Q times to support what Jeff said was true: the track was indeed faster (for street tires mostly). The data does nothing to dispel that the disparity still exists based on the cars running and that Ford combo continues to pretty much mow down AS records as we know them. More on mowing later.

So in retrospect, all this to really say: yep the track was faster. And yep, Ford really went no slower.

Topeka will eventually tell the story. But I thought it would last year too. Maybe we need to learn where John goes to church. It certainly wasn't the United Church of Setups last year.

Skipping CD Alert
Speaking of Topeka. Everyone remember how far behind the "winning" GM car was to the two SN95 Mustangs when they "did not finish" and the Fox body that mowed more grass than a Snapper? (Maybe that should be Ed's new nickname). How quick everyone forgets the race lap margin from fastest Ford to fastest GM was 1.7 seconds.

I'm not saying to ignore GM has won X in a row. Far from it. And I'm not BASING it on one Ford combo. I'm saying to look below the surface (like you did when you said the rain influenced the race outcome).

The fastest AS has not won the Runoffs for at least three years now. Data comparing race laps from the top ten at the Runoffs for a few years back supports this premise (not to mention personal observation). Data shows GM can "generally" qualify with Ford, but when the race is on, the Ford advantage is predictably measurable. This is data comparing the best Ford against the best GM. Not one Ford vs. one GM.

This is the time in the program where I thank the efforts of those working so :censored: hard (on both sides of the fence) to close this gap:
Thank you. :clap:
Thank you. :clap:
Thank you. :clap:

Again: Nice job Mr. Grant. :cheers:

t4wallace
06-05-2007, 04:55 PM
Tw I see it a different way. Take the drivers that set the fast times vs what they did last year on the new surface. Bill B ran 1.5 secs faster then his best last year. David P also ran close to 2 secs faster then before. Tom only went .7 faster then his record. I would say that the 100 lbs did make a difference.
First, I agree that the track is faster for street-tire classes. I also agree the weight made a difference in qualifying. The disparity grows in race trim, so we'll never know.

Track Record Improvements
AS: record went down .706 (2.8 secs to the good over best GM AS; Stichter)
T1: record went down .725 (a JH record broken by David P in his Viper)
T2: record went down 1.078 seconds
T3: record went down 1.979 seconds (guess T3 is improving eh)
SM: record went down .785 seconds
SSB: record went down .685 seconds
SSC: record went down 1.051 seconds

Only SSB improved less than AS and that was in a car that got, wait for it, #200 after the Runoffs last year and still maintained a .4 advantage over the Miata. Imagine that, a Ford (I know, by adoption) product getting it from a GM product that just got weight added. :rolleyes: :laughing: (We need a sarcastic laughing dude).

So let's do something crazy here. The average improvement in lap time for the street tire classes from 06 to 07 is 1 second. If we subtract 1 second from the fastest GM in the 06 race (crazy I know) we get a 1:40.306 (Post). That's still a .958 second shit sandwich in Jerry's world. (BTW, the 41.306 was in the race and faster than his Q time. Andy went faster in the race too.)

In the end, it would appear the 100# did make a difference. At least at Mid Ohio. The blood is no longer coming from the jugular.

Jerry Post
06-06-2007, 01:42 PM
Glad to see my racing menu keeps coming up unforntunately only the GM guys are getting to eat my famous sandwich. Maybe it will taste better dipped in some of that Tequila. :cheers:

Does anyone really believe the Fords don't have an advantage. Come-on. Sloe is rip as fast and eating up GMs every where he goes. Please explain that and don't give me the set up and driving expertise bull shit anwer.:mad:

Good run Carey.

23CRLmotorsports
06-06-2007, 06:50 PM
I could tell you all... But then I would have to kill you..