PDA

View Full Version : GT1 on Speed


Ackjazz
12-15-2006, 02:57 PM
I have figured out how to get better interviews for the podium finishers at the run-offs next year. Find 10 seconds per lap. If GT1 runs 10 seconds a lap faster than AS, at 18 laps that's 180 seconds, or three minutes. And that extra three minutes made a big difference in post race interviews.

What it didn't do was stop the interviewer from still dropping the "we're running out of time" bomb. :clap: It's not cool to say that. Try a more subtle interruption like "well, it was great to see you finish so well - back to you Dorsey", or "it's tough to finish like that, but I appreciate your time - back to you Dorsey". Not "yeah, we know there are a lot of people to thank (but we don't give a rats :censored: ) but we're running out of time.

They could do it the right way. But no. It was as if time had suddenly become a non-existent commodity, because the Speed guys were clearly running out of it all the time.

By the way, did anyone notice the only Sloe sighting in the GT1 race? In the post race highlights - the only time on screen - driving staight off the end of 1, tires locked up. Nice work, Speed - that was classic!

SedanMan
12-15-2006, 09:05 PM
By the way, did anyone notice the only Sloe sighting in the GT1 race?Not to hijack this thread, but regarding AS cars entering GT-1 races.......granted an AS car is not competitive with a typical GT-1 car, and granted that the AS car still would have to meet the 120% qualifying time rule, but is an AS car legal in GT-1?

I was thinking of entering GT-1 with an AS once for the same reason Sloe probably did, namely, more track time. From memory I thought the following either had to be added, changed, or modified in order for an AS car to be legal in GT-1:

GT-1 requires (2) 360-degree driveshaft loops
GT-1 requires that doors can not (pop) open in the event of an accident
GT-1 cars can not have headlights
GT-1 cars must have a metal bulkhead between driver and fuel cell
GT-1 requires a minimum 10 lb fire bottle (easy to change though if you only have a 5 lb)
....and then the biggies....
GT-1 chassis must be made of steel tubing (excluding all unibody cars, if not all AS cars)
GT-1 carbureted cars must use a Holley 4150 carb (not a 4776 as required in AS)


Although someone could remove headlights, add driveshaft loops, pin doors, add a metal bulkhead, and replace the Holley 4776 carb with a 4150 carb, no way can you have a production AS Mustang "be made of steel tubing".

So.....why was he allowed to run in GT-1? If this is somehow legal then I think it's a great way to get extra track time. If it's not legal then why did the tech guys allow such a vehicle to be raced in GT-1, not to mention advertise it on national TV? It's not like it blended in with the rest of the GT-1 cars! :)

(I do recall at a local National race that some fuel-celled Vipers were protested in GT-1 and were subsequently removed from the event, so I'm just curious why Sloe was allowed to run at the Runoffs)

King Matt
12-15-2006, 11:22 PM
Although someone could remove headlights, add driveshaft loops, pin doors, add a metal bulkhead, and replace the Holley 4776 carb with a 4150 carb, no way can you have a production AS Mustang "be made of steel tubing".
4150 designates a family of Holley carbs that have secondary metering blocks of which the 4776 part number is a member, as distinct from the 4500 series (Dominator flange) or some other families like the 4160s (secondary metering plates). So once you get the tube frame handled, you can keep your current carburetor.:p

Ackjazz
12-16-2006, 03:10 PM
Good points all, Bill. I'm sure Mark or T-dub will give us the real answers, but I doubt he went to tech or was required to go to tech. He would easily be DQ'd with results, could have times erased and finishing spots erased if he didn't pass tech. But I doubt he was ever there for these issues to be brought up. Nor would he care.

I spoke to Sloe at the Chili party and he was quite proud of entering GT1 with his AS car - and flat out said he was there for track time. I think he qualified for the runoffs in a GT1 car (not for sure, though), but never intended on taking it to HPT as he said he was focused on winning in AS.

I bet there were a few GT1 drivers not all that happy about it. Especially since the runoffs are to be class specific - and for a reason. If there are issues, the drivers could always throw paper if they wanted an AS car off the track.

I'm anxious to read the real answers presented by one of our resident rules experts...

t4wallace
12-18-2006, 11:28 AM
but I doubt he went to tech or was required to go to tech. He would easily be DQ'd with results, could have times erased and finishing spots erased if he didn't pass tech. But I doubt he was ever there for these issues to be brought up. Nor would he care.
By the rules, he would have had to present his car to "GT1 tech" to run the race. His AS tech sticker does not entitle him to track access with the GT1 boys.


So.....why was he allowed to run in GT-1? If this is somehow legal then I think it's a great way to get extra track time. If it's not legal then why did the tech guys allow such a vehicle to be raced in GT-1, not to mention advertise it on national TV? It's not like it blended in with the rest of the GT-1 cars! :)

(I do recall at a local National race that some fuel-celled Vipers were protested in GT-1 and were subsequently removed from the event, so I'm just curious why Sloe was allowed to run at the Runoffs)
The short answer is that no one running a GT1 cared enough to ask him to leave. Tom is not the first one to take a non-GT1 car and run it in a GT1 race. Kerry Alexander once ran a Corvette Challenge car in a race to get a finish. The difference was that he had the class to talk to the GT1 guys to make sure they were cool with it, BEFORE he ran the race. He also ran a GT1 car in the race, not his "other car designated for track time".

The bottom line is that none of us brought it to the attention of the Stewards. He would not have been allowed to run if the car was inspected by the letter of the rulebook, but it would have been up to an AS or GT1 competitor to form a protest based on a specific non-compliance. So we, therefore, are at fault for letting it happen. He did it for track time, period. So much as admitted it at the chili party to more than one person. Nothing wrong with it if no one challenges him on it and no sleep is lost. It's not murder, but he got away with it. And the 120 % rule is not hard and fast. All it does is give the Steward a guideline to use if competitors are asking to have a competitor removed.

Bill -- it is NOT required, as I understand it, for a GT1 to be a tube frame car (they just have to be to be competitive now). A little walk thru history reveals that GT1 grew into tube-framed cars. Original cars were AS, AP, BP and old original TransAm cars that raced as unibody cars with original (OK, modified) exterior sheet metal and chassis. The early 80's brought in fiberglass tube-framed cars from TransAm. Boris Tirpack's Corvette is not a tube framed car and he has run it at the Runoffs in GT1 for years and might not have made the 120% rule the last few years. The Sunbeam Tigers that run in GT2 are not tube-framed cars. Just a couple example off the top of my head.

My dad's original 67 Camaro ran under AS and GT1 rules with little or no change. Until it was laid to rest.:mad:

And oh, does it surprise anyone that they'd try and make a story of a production Mustang running the race without full understanding as to why someone would race a car that's 10 secs a lap off the pace? The production trailer must have understood the value since they dictate what we see.

TW

koscieldrk
12-18-2006, 03:16 PM
I think he qualified for the runoffs in a GT1 car (not for sure, though), but never intended on taking it to HPT as he said he was focused on winning in AS. ...[/quote]

I believe Sloe ran all but 2 GT1 Races with the Mustang to Qualify for the Runoffs. I know for a fact he ran at least 6 GT1 races 4 with the Mustang. I believe the other 2 were in his GT1 Corvette which were DNF's. Doggone he was 8th in points in GT1 all accumulated with the Mustang.

Ackjazz
12-18-2006, 03:57 PM
Thanks Dwaine. That's pretty wild, I knew somebody would know. It seems that the spirit of the law was avoided as well as the letter of the law.

Bottom line is if someone wants to throw paper or just call him out we could. It just hasn't happened yet.

If pushing the rules until somebody calls him out is his MO, then I think we could read into the notion that until somebody says something, rules are going to be stretched in other places too.

thomas toth
12-18-2006, 04:50 PM
I think Sloe was legal (for GT1). We have had some conversations and he did make changes to the car before he would go out for GT1 qualifying. Who knows.....pretty good idea and a great way to get extra track time. Not that much different than Hienracy running 3 classes. I know Sloe was praying for rain....now that could have been very interesting! Oh yea...he said he wanted to run the A Sedan in the Trans Am race on Sunday but they wouldn't let him.

Tom
#38 Camaro
Cen Div.

SedanMan
12-18-2006, 05:52 PM
Not that much different than Hienracy running 3 classes.......Oh yea...he said he wanted to run the A Sedan in the Trans Am race on Sunday but they wouldn't let him.

Tom
#38 Camaro
Cen Div.It's a lot different. Heinricy had 3 completely different cars for 3 different classes.

I don't want to go all the way to Topeka in the future only to find out there that they wouldn't let me run my AS car in GT-1 like they did Sloe's car this year. Maybe I'll write a letter to Jeremy Thoennes at the SCCA in Topeka and get his ruling on what I have to change on my AS car so I can get extra track time next time I go to the Runoffs. I'm sure no one would care in my Division since I wouldn't be messing up their points race, so the Runoffs would be my only test for legality.

Since a GT-1 is a lot closer to Trans-Am specs than a AS car is to GT-1 specs, I wonder what that means (the fact that he could run his AS car in GT-1 but not in Trans Am).

thomas toth
12-18-2006, 06:47 PM
If A=B and B=C than A does not have to equal C. Just what you said, there is a larger jump between A Sedan and TA than there is between Gt1 and TA. Also I don't think anyone would want to junk up a professional series with a AS car. Not sure of the TA rules....maybe they call for tube frame cars, don't know.

I saw Tom run at Grattan in GT1 and there was muttering that he would be protested and nothing ever came of it as far as I know. I need to take a close look at the rule book. I know Tom spouted them off to me, sure seemed legal after a half dozen beers.

I have to give Tom a lot of credit for this one.....pretty darn smart. I don't think he was the first guy to run one car in 2 classes. I know I have seen it done in the Production ranks....maybe Sports Racer.

Tom
#38 camaro
Cen Div.

SedanMan
12-18-2006, 06:54 PM
If A=B and B=C than A does not have to equal C.Yes it does. See "Transitive Property of Equality." :)


I have to give Tom a lot of credit for this one.....pretty darn smart.

Tom
#38 camaro
Cen Div.If the SCCA lets me do it next year then I'm doing it too.

t4wallace
12-19-2006, 10:36 AM
If the SCCA lets me do it next year then I'm doing it too.
I would expect the GT1 community to have a problem with it if AS cars come to their reindeer games for extra track time...

SedanMan
12-19-2006, 04:09 PM
I would expect the GT1 community to have a problem with it if AS cars come to their reindeer games for extra track time...It's all or nothing baby. :)

I don't see why one car/driver/team should get special treatment over another and if they were fine with it this year then why not next year? I was just as surprised as a lot of people to see an AS car out there with the GT-1 cars, but if the SCCA allows it them I'm up for it.

The reality is that I'd only use their qualifying sessions anyway since the GT-1 race is usually after the AS race and my priority is for AS. That's why I can't understand why Sloe even drove in the GT-1 race since it was the day after the AS race. Even the argument of working on car setup doesn't make much sense unless he was working on a wet weather setup since the track was not dry at the beginning of the GT-1 race. I'm sure he had his reasons though.

Nonetheless, why wouldn't an AS driver want a practice (GT-1) session AND a qualifying (AS) session on each of the 4 qualifying days? :cheers:

jimwheeler
12-19-2006, 04:24 PM
If Tom hadn't run all those GT1 "test" laps, maybe his car would have been running at the end of the AS race. It's all in how you use or use up the equipment, in my view.
wheel

thomas toth
12-19-2006, 05:12 PM
I think Tom Sloe decided to run the race because it WAS wet. For those who haven't raced with a GT1 car in the rain they are not all that hard to beat. Tom is fast in the rain....maybe he could have taken the whole thing if they had a down pour. I agree with Wheel...if you want to run your A Sedan car in 2 classes plan on doubling your budget and having the car break down twice as much.

Tom

koscieldrk
12-20-2006, 08:17 AM
Sloe hurt the engine he qualified with during the practice in the morning. Guess they had to take parts from a couple of other engines and put one together for the race. That one only made 8 laps. When I was on the grid the workers were preparing to have him start from the rear as he had not showed. I know that all the cars were holdinng on grid for quite a long time. Could it be that they were giving additional time for him to button up the car. I know I heard the grid workers mentioninng that they were not going to be able to hold the field much longer before giving the 5 minute.

KW78
12-21-2006, 01:00 AM
Which field did they hold up, GT1 or AS?

I think the GT1 guys will have a problem with alot of AS guys doing that. But I wonder why he couldn't run trans am, there was a miata running it and an RX7.
I did not like running with GT1's, all those fasta$$ Camaros - Just not right..:laughing:

We had an AS guy run GT1 here for the contingency in the rain, because he did beat the field. The stewards didn't let it stand because he did not have the spec GT1 wing. I read the GT1 rules recently, didn't see a requirement for a wing, just constraints if you use one.

In fact, I wonder how the "allowed modifications" become manditory, as some of the language suggests, like headlights.

...so this is what a short post is....

koscieldrk
12-21-2006, 08:20 AM
Kyle,

They were holding the AS field. If I remember correctly some official came up and talked to the 2 Grid Workers in the Halloween costumes and told them the situation and they were talking about when to give the 5 minute. Something was said in the effect of OK, but if he isn't here by the 3 min. then he will go to the back of the field or start from pit road. Didn't you feel that you were sitting on Grid for a long time after the Track was cleared from the previous race.

Sparky
12-21-2006, 11:22 AM
If the SCCA lets me do it next year then I'm doing it too.[/QUOTE]


SCCA will be happy to take your entry fee provided you have a compliant car for the class entered (AS or GT1).

AS has always been legal to run as GT1 if the car is prepped correctly.

BTW, you'll have a use for the cam you had at the runoffs. :thumbsup: