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jericker
03-12-2006, 11:06 PM
Has anyone heard anything out of Memphis yet? I was hoping to be there, but my car isn't done yet. Wheel, how did the new Precision brake package hold up under race conditions? Anyone else with any feedback on their new brake packages from one of the other manufacturers such as Tornado, etc.? Any results? Jon

jimwheeler
03-13-2006, 10:39 AM
I just got back about an hour ago.

qual
Phillip Smith 1:14.733
James Stevens 1:15.079
Shawn Gray 1:17.177
Jim Wheeler 1:17.185
Carey Grant 1:17.197

race:
James Stevens 1:15.791
Phillip 1:16.446
Wheel 1:15.897
Shawn 1:17.052
Carey 1:17.692

I tried Autocross tires for qualifying and it was a big mistake. Not being used to the new brakes, I cooked one of the fronts down to the belt. Bad vibration from then on.

I had a terrible start and Carey and Shawn and four other-class cars got around me. I went to the right and a dog-ass slow ('68) GT1 Vette pulled in front of me and put on his brakes about a mile before turn 1. He couldn't get around the corners and held me up until the front straight. Everybody got by me.

I managed to take Carey and Shawn after the traffic thinned out. It is a real pain to run with the EP guys because we have the exact same lap times, but make it in different ways at different parts of the course. I got drill twice by an EP Miata, but it didn't spin me.

Brakes.

In impound, both James and Phillip talked about having mushy pedal in the late stages of the race. Jim said something like, "pump the pedal, pump the pedal and then put on the brakes. We all know the drill. Phillip said he was having a similar problem. (edited after posts from Jim and Phil)
The Willwoods were just as good at the end as on the first lap. Full hard pedal and the same stopping power. Almost no pad wear that I can see and the rotors look great. I love them. They are a little noisy, but I got so I just ignored that. Also, the pads don't drag on the rotor and at the end of the long straight it was a good idea to tap the pedal to push the pistons back out a couple of thousandths. The first time I notice this, I pushed the pedal a little and nothing happened, then I sort of freaked and pushed way too hard and smoked the tires a little bit. Once I figured out what was going on, it was no sweat. I'm still working on balancing the pad compounds, but I think that will be something of a personal preference. Ted Johnson will have the pad information and my observations for anyone who wants to go with these brakes.
I weathered out a 45 minute monster storm in the trailer last night in central Missouri. Hail, high winds and that sound everyone describes as a freight train or jet engine. Scared the shit out of me.
wheel

jkopp
03-13-2006, 11:01 AM
Wheel,

Glad you made it home safe. We left St. Louis at 5PM yesterday and it took us 6 hours to get to KC in a pickup truck. Bill and I were worried about your trip back. There were a bunch of semi's blown over on I-70 and no signs left for about 40 miles just this side of Columbia. It was scary and all I could think about was you pulling the Big Kahuna back.

So... a little off this forum's topic, but how did it go in SM???

-Kopp

BTW - Got my pads from Ted Friday. They were sitting on my desk this morning. It's almost ridiculous how much thicker they are http://www.asedan.net/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif . Good to hear the Wilwoods worked well (maybe even too well). I'm excited!

jericker
03-13-2006, 11:19 AM
Thanks for the information on the brakes, Wheel. Likewise, glad you made it home okay. Any other brake options besides the PBR's that were run by anyone this past weekend? I feel pretty confident that the Wilwoods are the way to go, just want to make sure that it is the right purchase. I've spent way more than I have on the car this winter already! Jon

Ackjazz
03-13-2006, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the update on the brakes, Wheel! Bummer about the start of the race - in only a short time in the seat myself, I can say "been there, done that". Sounds like you had fun though. :D

How did Philips car perform? Was he happy with it?

jimwheeler
03-13-2006, 07:25 PM
Phil seemed very pleased. Certainly for the first outing of a brand new car he should be ecstatic. He had BIG motor on us and used it well, especially in qualifying. All five cars seemed to run pretty well all the way through and the old days of five starters, two in the weeds and one smoking seem to be in the past.
Jim Stevens car is a well balanced unit and I pick him as the early season favorite for top dog in MidDiv. Phil will be there all season, too if he doesn't provide another one of his spectacular "kink" or MidO highlight reel offs.
Great bunch of guys. Carey did get in my face after qualifying. I had burned the old Autocross tires off and was driving very slowly trying to let them cool. I pulled way off line, raised my hand and tried to give Carey room to go by on the line. He, at the same time, was watching his mirrors, pulling off line to let Bill Gray go by in the GT1 Vette. Carey looked back and notice that I had not speeded up and he swerved right to miss rear ending me and Gray hit him a nice little shot. I saw Carey's left front tire up by my right window.
One of those deals where we were both trying to be thoughtful of the other guy. A classic "No good deed goes unpunished".
wheel

Ted Johnson
03-13-2006, 07:59 PM
I just got back about an hour ago.

qual
Phillip Smith 1:14.733
James Stevens 1:15.079
Shawn Gray 1:17.177
Jim Wheeler 1:17.185
Carey Grant 1:17.197

race:
James Stevens 1:15.791
Phillip 1:16.446
Wheel 1:15.897
Shawn 1:17.052
Carey 1:17.692

I tried Autocross tires for qualifying and it was a big mistake. Not being used to the new brakes, I cooked one of the fronts down to the belt. Bad vibration from then on.

I had a terrible start and Carey and Shawn and four other-class cars got around me. I went to the right and a dog-ass slow ('68) GT1 Vette pulled in front of me and put on his brakes about a mile before turn 1. He couldn't get around the corners and held me up until the front straight. Everybody got by me.

I managed to take Carey and Shawn after the traffic thinned out. It is a real pain to run with the EP guys because we have the exact same lap times, but make it in different ways at different parts of the course. I got drill twice by an EP Miata, but it didn't spin me.

Brakes.

In impound, both James and Phillip talked about the PBR mushy pedal in the late stages of the race. Jim said something like, "pump the pedal, pump the pedal and then put on the brakes. We all know the drill. Phillip said he was having the same problem.
The Willwoods were just as good at the end as on the first lap. Full hard pedal and the same stopping power. Almost no pad wear that I can see and the rotors look great. I love them. They are a little noisy, but I got so I just ignored that. Also, the pads don't drag on the rotor and at the end of the long straight it was a good idea to tap the pedal to push the pistons back out a couple of thousandths. The first time I notice this, I pushed the pedal a little and nothing happened, then I sort of freaked and pushed way too hard and smoked the tires a little bit. Once I figured out what was going on, it was no sweat. I'm still working on balancing the pad compounds, but I think that will be something of a personal preference. Ted Johnson will have the pad information and my observations for anyone who wants to go with these brakes.
I weathered out a 45 minute monster storm in the trailer last night in central Missouri. Hail, high winds and that sound everyone describes as a freight train or jet engine. Scared the shit out of me.
wheel

First off I want to congradulate Jim Stevens on his win and Phil Smith for a strong second with the car just hitting the ground is impressive. And they did it with the old pbr brakes. As most of you know I race with Wheeler and I was unable to be there for this race. If you havent seen the news about the weather in the midwest sunday, my partner was very lucky he stopped at a gas station last night. He may have been turned over by a tornado had he not stopped. After talking with Jim today about the brakes its clear that the brakes are a big change to our car. A very positive one. They are very powerful and take serious driving talent to use them to their fullest potential. We are excited about our cars new potential. We will continue to dial them in to our tastes. Its clear they will save us money in consumable costs. There won't be one definitive answer to what brake pads you should run because now we have a brake system that can be tuned to our setup and our taste. We will share our results with anyone who is interested in this topic.

Ted Johnson

racingbrakesolutions@cox.net

92AS
03-13-2006, 08:09 PM
It was a great weekend of racing. Decent weather. Great group of guys. Memphis BBQ. Beale St. Saturday night. It was all good.

Phil and I had a great race. This time I got lucky on the start and Phil didn't. Had the circumstances been reversed, so would have been the results.

One small correction: I switched to Coleman calipers and rotors during the off season. This was the first time out and there was a little air left in the system. A good bleeding and they'll be fine.


Jim Stevens
#92 AS

jimwheeler
03-13-2006, 08:47 PM
Jim,
Sorry for my error. I just caught the conversation between you and Phil, and I knew Phil had the old set up since we had talked earlier. Being alone there with two cars, I didn't really get a chance to talk to everyone and see what they had done with the brakes. Again, good job to all and see you at the next shoot out.
wheel

PS, I just watched the news and saw the coverage of the weather in Missouri last night. OMG. If you look at the weather maps, I stopped right in the middle of all the dark red triangles, etc. that signify tornados, big hail, high winds and general oh shit!!!!. When I crawled in the big Kahuna and it started rocking like a dingy in heavy seas and the hail started hammering the aluminum roof, I poured a martini and read my book. I had no idea what was really going on outside.

smithpr
03-13-2006, 11:42 PM
First point-Congratulations for Jim S. on the win. Great start and great drive. I drove the wheels off the thing and could not get closer then a couple of seconds. That car is working and your drive was flawless.
Second point-What a great field for midiv. 5 cars each of the drivers have mulitple national wins and each of the cars is a top 10 runoffs car.
Third point- WOW what a first weekend on a new car. The biggest issue that we dealt with was that the gas peddle needed adjustment so that the heal toe thing would work. The new car was very strong for a first outing. Tom A did a great job with the cage and the cell and helped me set the car up and it really is working. All those late nights paid off.
Fourth point-Great group of guys. I really enjoyed spending some time with Jim Wheeler on Saturday night.
Fifth point- My brake issue had nothing to do with the PBR brakes. I fully understand that Jim W brakes are a huge improvement over the PBR but the peddle issue related to something else. I will need to get the dial indicator out to find it but some reason my brake pistons are pumping back into the caliper and they needed a tap to push them out. This would have happend with the Wilwood and likely been more of any issue due to the fixed nature of the Wilwood set up. I will be upgrading my brakes but I need to figure out which set up I am going to run. I really liked the looks of what Jim W had. The package seemed to be very nice and everything fit very well. I had the brake issue during the two laps of qualifiying that I ran. No big deal and really had no impact on any of my times. And please do not think that I am making any excuses for my loss to Jim S. He had the better car and drove a better race. That's it.

Great racing and I hope that we have 5 cars like this at each of the midiv races.

Philip Smith
#54 Midiv.

jimwheeler
03-14-2006, 03:09 PM
My brake issue about the need to tap the pedal to reset the pads at the end of the straight turned out to be due to the fact that I had changed pads and had not had a chance to bed them properly. Precision asked some questions about when this happened, etc. I had noticed the problem on the first several laps. It did not happen late in the race so I guess once they were bedded, the issue went away. I did not have the problem on Saturday with the pads that we had bedded in properly during testing at MAM.

So, to keep the brake issue clear. Jim and Phil did not have PBR problems as I had wrongly assumed when I heard their conversation in impound after the race. I probably assumed that because of past experience with fading brakes at the end of national races.
Jim is running a Coleman set up and says that the problem was air in the lines, not with the brakes themselves.

Phil's problem was due to pistons being pushed back into the calipers.
Precision indicated to me that this can be caused by hub, bearing or rotor problems that cause the rotor to push back on the pads. I think in early brake discussion this was talked about as rotor run-out. I am going to check my hubs and wheel bearings to be sure that they are all good.

wheel

jericker
03-14-2006, 09:16 PM
Anybody know if Ted Johnson is still the guy to talk to about pricing for the Precision Brakes Wilwood system? My guys tried to call today and got a different price than we've been talking about here on forum. Jon

socalta
03-14-2006, 09:33 PM
either Ted here or Laramie at Precision.

Ted Johnson
03-14-2006, 09:51 PM
Anybody know if Ted Johnson is still the guy to talk to about pricing for the Precision Brakes Wilwood system? My guys tried to call today and got a different price than we've been talking about here on forum. Jon

Jon,

I sent you an email. Precisions sales staff can only offer AS kits at retail pricing. I am the only one who can offer them at the group buy pricing. I now have Wilwoods complete product line at my disposal, so I can get you guys anything you need. Including brake pads for pbr calipers. I tested a mild wilwood compound on a 99 cobra. Still a street car but it was very impressive.

Ted Johnson

racingbrakesolutions@cox.net

socalta
03-14-2006, 11:39 PM
my bad ......

jericker
03-15-2006, 12:06 AM
Ted, I got it, check your email. Jon