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KW78
06-24-2010, 10:10 PM
No, No, I mean you guys that are there give us a report, HERE!

Can't believe I'm missing another sprints. :down:

Ted Johnson
06-25-2010, 11:00 PM
From Wheeler.

Andy Mcdermid 2.30.585 s197

Ed Hosni 2.31.975 fox

Rich Jones 2.33.317 sn95

Tom Ellis 2.34.770 sn95

Jim Wheeler 2.35.314 third gen firebird

Fred Hetherwick 2.35.715 s197

Tom Toth 2.36.383 third gen camaro

Chris Pederson 2.36.786 ??

Christopher Quales(sp) 2.40.478 fox

Robert Eubanks 2.47.096 sn95

Matt Regan 2.48.796 fox (Harvey Wests old car)

Chuck Dawson 2.54.044 third gen camaro

King Matt
06-26-2010, 09:28 AM
Session results here:

http://www.scca.com/eventitems.aspx?item=280&event=16582&hub=1

I've got nothing to report other than I was standing at T5 during Qualifying 1 and saw Andy to a cool 360 degree spin and continue in the runoff area. :D

koscieldrk
06-26-2010, 09:46 AM
From Wheeler.

Andy Mcdermid 2.30.585 s197

Ed Hosni 2.31.975 fox

Rich Jones 2.33.317 sn95

Tom Ellis 2.34.770 sn95

Jim Wheeler 2.35.314 third gen firebird

Fred Hetherwick 2.35.715 s197

Tom Toth 2.36.383 third gen camaro

Chris Pederson 2.36.786 ??

Christopher Quales(sp) 2.40.478 fox

Robert Eubanks 2.47.096 sn95

Matt Regan 2.48.796 fox (Harvey Wests old car)

Chuck Dawson 2.54.044 third gen camaro


Chris Pederson 2.36.786 is driving my old fox body, which is now painted Black.

King Matt
06-26-2010, 09:15 PM
Matt Regan took a hard hit during the race. I was watching from the hill on the outside of Turn 7. He came through 7 and mid-apex at the inside curbing a Miata drove into his right rear, sending him into a spin. The car spun about 180 degrees and slid sideways across the grass and the left nose of the car hit the end of the tire wall at drivers right at about 45 degree angle. The car bounced back pointing in the direction of travel down to Turn 8. It took the safety crew a long time to get him out of the car, and they took him off on a backboard, so I can only assume he had neck or back pain from the hit. Hoping he's OK.

Ted Johnson
06-26-2010, 09:53 PM
Just talked to Wheeler. They held him in impound for 2 hours telling him nothing as to why he was in there. His group released and the next race group came and released. 2 hours later they finally tell him they are moving him back 1 postition for passing under yellow. AND not even a position in class just behind a sto car. WTF? He could have been out of there in 5 minutes. They were clueless. He "heard" Regan was released from the hospital. Said cars were off on almost every corner. They really only had a handfull of green flag laps and checkered early because of the carnage everywhere and checkered at lap 10 instead of 13.

Mark Allen
06-26-2010, 10:57 PM
Got a quick report from Tom Toth on his ride home. To add to what Ted said, of the 10 race laps only 3-4 were under green and even those had yellow's at some corners. The remainder of the laps were under full course caution. Apparently just a ton of carnage and rampant stupidity.

Tom, Wheel, and whomever was there will have to fill us all in.

Mark

Ted Johnson
06-26-2010, 11:02 PM
Wheeler said the same. It was unbelievable carnage on track. Sadly, the ex Harvey West car is totaled.

thomas toth
06-27-2010, 02:01 AM
Matt was back at the track before I left... other than looking absolutely drained and having some neck paid he said he was fine. He had a beer in hand and he was headed to the driver / worker dinner. The car took a hard hit but per Andy McDermott it can be fixed...no problem. It was pretty bad....I don't know Mustangs but if it was my Camaro I would be out looking for a new body. As for the race I'll fill you in tomorrow...I can say it was absolutely the worse race that I have ever been in! One Ferrari blew a motor and spun, 2 more Ferrari's ended in the gravel traps. I would guess 10 or more cars spun or had some significant crash damage. Our best laps could be compared to the first lap of a rain race....you could never get going everyone was checking up.

Tom

thomas toth
06-27-2010, 05:46 PM
Okay...back to the Sprints. Friday was a great day, hot but a great track for practice and the 1st qualifying. There were about 50 cars on track but we weren't bunched together so it made for a good time. I have to tell you it is pretty cool tucking your bumper under a Ferrari Challenge car and running with him down the straight then hearing what sounds like 3 quick FI style down shifts. Tom Ellis had the nose off his Mustang and didn't make it to practice, Andy had brake issues in both practice and qualifying but still managed to land the pole. As always it was great to see the AS gang as well as some old friends like David Venhaus. We were all pretty spread out over the infield so it made it hard to see everyone.

It rained pretty hard Friday night enough to clean up some of the NASCAR junk off of the track.....it was very hot and humid. At one on the parts suppliers stations the temp showed 96 degrees and the humidity was close to 80%. Once again the second qualifying went well the track was dry and everyone stayed clean.

As I said before the race was a mess. It is hard to remember the details lap by lap but what I do remember is everyone checking up corner after corner, lap after lap with a wall of havoc at almost every turn. The "big one" was on lap 1 or 2 going into turn 3 when one of the Ferrari's blew a motor. There was a lot of smoke and oil, cars going everywhere you had to just try to pick a hole while on oil with cars coming back across the track. There were a couple dramatic moments between turn 3 and 5 about 1/3rd of the way down. It looked like 2 Camaros (STO and maybe a T2) came together spun and again came across the track...don't know why they spun on the straight but both Fred and I had to dump it on the wet grass on the left but we both made it by clean. David Venhaus stayed to the right and got past both Fred and I. Later in the race in the same general area (I think it was later) it appears that somehow a STO Corvette made some significant contact with the right side of Dave's car. Not sure how it happened, he may have spun into him. Before the pace car came out there were broken, stuck or wrecked cars in 4 or 5 locations on the track. They ended calling it on lap 10. It was very strange...for the few laps that we ran the cars never spread out as you would expect. Some of the "faster" cars up front were checking up a lot more than the middle and back of the pack. I think a lot of the STU and STO drivers were so impressed by the Jacque Velleneu's move in Canada Corner the prior weekend that they figured they could try the same thing in every corner. The AS drivers were the cleanest of the bunch. Both Dave and Matt got popped and without seeing it coming. The most frustrating thing was working hard on the car for 3 sessions, knowing it feels good and seeing 4 A Sedans making there way around 5 when you are at the 300 marker single file under a full course yellow. You just prayed for some continuous green flag racing that never really happened.

Matt if you are reading this I hope you are feeling well. If you are looking for a replacement shell I think Kris Smith has a real nice fresh Fox Body A Sedan at a good price.

Tom

jimwheeler
06-27-2010, 06:29 PM
Just walked in. Haven't read any of the posts, June Sprints = June Joke. Terrible experience and screwed by the stewards to top it off. And lied to by the stewards.

ASGTO
06-27-2010, 09:27 PM
I was really bummed out that my work and class schedule would not allow me to make the Sprints this years. I have always loved racing in it. However, after reading all this, I think that I am the biggest winner of all by staying home. I have not had a chance to visit with Wheeler but I have raced with him, fender to fender, bumper to bumper and door to door since 2003. During that time we encountered some Yellow flags. He has been racing since I was born and I am 38! Unless he went around a car as it was crashing, I find it hard to believe that he passed under yellow. The entire race was under yellow for Pete's sake.

Sheesh! I really am glad that I skipped the 14 hour haul. I guess those that didn't crash or get crashed can use their tires for the next race. They should be scuffed perfectly and ready to go.

I did notice that Andy Wolverton was within a second and a half of Andy McDermid in his T2 Solstice. Wow! That is fast. Not bad for a 4 cylinder.

I am sure Wheeler is exhausted physically and mentally but I do want to hear his story.

Fred Hetherwick
06-28-2010, 02:03 AM
This has been a great event every year I have attended until this year. It just seemed like we were on track with a bunch of people who have never been on a race track before. Terrible driving seemed to the the norm and not from the AS competetors. A lot of the T1 drivers acted like they had never done it before and STO and STU seemed to have some drivers with less of a clue than that.

I agree with Chris's comments about Wheel. Not only do I question what the final resut was ( I saw a huge number of passes under the yellow. It was almost impossible to avoid.), but the time he was held in limbo and the way it was handled was beyond belief.

Fred

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 07:59 AM
I guess I should have expected a little payback for the time and effort I put in on the committee investigating the ASedan fiasco, after last year's Runoffs. I'm sure there are stewards chuckling over "paybacks are a bitch"

Walther
06-28-2010, 08:20 AM
I guess I should have expected a little payback for the time and effort I put in on the committee investigating the ASedan fiasco, after last year's Runoffs. I'm sure there are stewards chuckling over "paybacks are a bitch"

I certainly hope that's not the case Jim, but I cannot imagine why you experienced the delay only to be moved back a race position, not a class position. I don't understand that. Does a race position really count towards anything?

I'm sorry you guys had such a miserable time, and glad nobody was seriuosly injured.

Mark Allen
06-28-2010, 08:26 AM
I guess I should have expected a little payback for the time and effort I put in on the committee investigating the ASedan fiasco, after last year's Runoffs. I'm sure there are stewards chuckling over "paybacks are a bitch"

I sincerely hope not. The stewards and the tech inspectors f'd up the runoffs last year not you. And you were representing all of the competitors in looking for solutions and insuring that it would not happen again. If some DB steward is looking for payback they need to find another hobby, this is still amateur racing where competitors spend tons of time, effort, and $$ for nothing more than a $10 trophy at best.

Mark

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 08:41 AM
They told me I was being moved back a race position. I chose not to appeal, not that I really could, since hours had passed and my witnesses all had left the area. I asked, "Is that all this means, one position?" The steward said yes, so I took the car to the trailer. Now, I see that they docket me a bunch of positions, including moving behind three ASedans who were in my mirrors for the entire race. I finished 18th and 5th in AS. Look at total time column. They moved me back to 25th and 8th.

http://scca.com/documents/Club_Events/10-sprints/Gr%201%20Final%20Race%20Results.pdf

ASGTO
06-28-2010, 11:00 AM
They told me I was being moved back a race position. I chose not to appeal, not that I really could, since hours had passed and my witnesses all had left the area. I asked, "Is that all this means, one position?" The steward said yes, so I took the car to the trailer. Now, I see that they docket me a bunch of positions, including moving behind three ASedans who were in my mirrors for the entire race. I finished 18th and 5th in AS. Look at total time column. They moved me back to 25th and 8th.

http://scca.com/documents/Club_Events/10-sprints/Gr%201%20Final%20Race%20Results.pdf

That is weird. The results are supposed to show an "*" next to people's names who were moved back positions with an explanation at the bottom. I didn't see that. Looks like you are gonna have to start showing up to races with an attorney and have legal papers drawn up and sign when you are told something! Sheesh!

If they had said you had drank 10 Margaritas the night before, then I would have believed that. :cheers:

Sorry you got screwed around!

ERVRCG
06-28-2010, 01:35 PM
There were a couple dramatic moments between turn 3 and 5 about 1/3rd of the way down. It looked like 2 Camaros (STO and maybe a T2) came together spun and again came across the track...don't know why they spun on the straight but both Fred and I had to dump it on the wet grass on the left but we both made it by clean.
Tom

Tom, I was the Orange Camaro that spun just after 3. I was following wheeler in under Bill Batens T2 car and the Red Ferrari going into 3. The Ferrari went 4 off on the outside with Jim right next him on track. Jim cleared and the Ferrari came straight accross the track :eek: in front of Bill and I as we were heading down the straight. I did a couple of tank slappers before heading towards the right side wall and managed to avoid impact with the wall and unfortunatley ended back on the straight stalled. I managed to get rolling just as Toth caught me. Hopefully I can figure out how to video edit my Iflip and post some stuff on YouTube.

As for Jim that was a total bummer. 4-5 cars passed me under double yellow heading into 6. I went wide in 5 to avoid what I thought was an overbreaking maneauver gone wrong by the Ferrari and that opened the door for a Ferrari, Corvette, Camaro, BMW, and Firebird to pass under double yellow. The only one they called in was Wheeler from turn 7. The one bimmer passed 4 dbl yellows before passing wheeler in carosel nearly trying to hit a saftey vehicle. Several BMWs had metal to metal issues that SCCA appeared to be dealing with first before even bothering to deal with Wheeler or me.


What is the rule about dbl yellow? Same as yellow...race to it as hard as you can to maintain your position? Maybe that was my mistake to backoff to early.

I will ditto Freds comment...other then my spin backing up 2/3rds of the field the racing the I had with the AS cars was clean...no marks on my car and lived to race another day. Thanks to everybody who missed me.

Eric Vickerman
#1 STO

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 02:11 PM
Eric pretty well described what happened. There was a string of cars nose to tail, coming up the hill. He went way wide and slowed. I was up the butt of the car in front of me. I saw what I thought was a wave by, and followed the car in front (a Vette, I think) through turn 6. There were at least four cars that went by, as Eric was way over to the right. As soon as I got under the bridge and saw the double yellow, I slowed. I held up my right hand and waved off the cars behind me. The guys in front kept going, and were way ahead of me by the time we got to turn 8. Down in the carousel the BMW passed me on the outside, at about 80, looking right at a tow truck or safety vehicle. I thought he was trying to catch the rest of the group, before they threw the green. With all of the carnage around the track, I wasn't in much of a hurry, since I knew we would be several laps before the green came out.

I might add that I had seen a yellow, but we were past that incident, and the first I saw of the double yellow, was after I made the pass and turned left under the bridge, which is when I stopped racing. My concentration was on the car that was almost spinning, on the right (had he spun, that would have been the third or fourth to do so within my view), on the car right in front of me, and on the upcoming turn. There was no concentration left to see when the local yellow became full course. There were local yellows all over the place and you could still pass, after the incident. Of course, all the guys who came through with me were long gone, and none were called for passing under the yellow.

Dennis Valet
06-28-2010, 02:25 PM
Very lame that there were only a few green laps, don't know why the stewards didn't black flag it... but this show made the folks at Canada corner feel a little better about the session

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/captainhardcore/Road%20America/June%20Sprints%202010/IMG_0353.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v213/captainhardcore/Road%20America/June%20Sprints%202010/IMG_0358.jpg

tellis#51sediv
06-28-2010, 02:30 PM
First , it was really great to see everyone although I did not get around to all the AS drivers as had issues myself. On Thursday's test session I was following Ed around and tried to get by him on the outside coming around the turn going into turn 5. Unfortunately Ed did not know I was there and cut over in front of me. This is the line so honestly I should have been expecting him to come over. Anyway I locked it up trying to avoid running into the back of Ed and the car turned into the concrete wall and then spun around backwards into it. Bent the front end around but fortunately in front of the strut tower brace. Chuck , Chas and Eubanks took the fenders off and we sent it to a frame shop in town that twisted it back to its normal position and did a great job of getting it back to us by 1000 am Friday morning. Made qualifying and was in 4th. The race was exactly like everyone described , cars off in every turn. No AS drivers, but there were alot of T1 and T2 drivers ,like said before ,driving like they had never been in a race before. I was able to stay pretty close to Ed who was in third because some T2 Bmw's and a couple of T1 Corvettes were holding him up. When we went green after the first double yellow I was able to sneak by Ed between 1 and 3 as he went left and got held up by the T2 Bmw I believe. Ended up third but was really happy I just came back with a car that had not been damaged. I really felt bad about Jim because I know he would not have passed under the double yellow unless to avoid hitting another car when they came to an instant stop as they did several times between 5 and 6 under caution. I do appreciate Jim's involvement in the runoffs situation and would surely hope they did not do this intentially to him. Oh well , hopefully things go better at Watkins Glen. Looking forward to seeing everyone there!

te

tbowers
06-28-2010, 03:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uia56S-kpTk

Here is a video from a T2 M3. At 6:30 he is 2 cars behind Jim when the "pass under yellow" happened. It also has a great shot of the BMW in front of him making a dumb @$$ move around 2 cars (including Jim) under caution.

Mark Allen
06-28-2010, 03:49 PM
Unbelievable dick move by the BMW racing with two cars in the carousel and under caution while passing a safety truck.

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 04:10 PM
Notice the turn 5 corner station - That's the one you can actually see. No yellow. Just a guy standing there. There are yellows up on the outside just in front of the bridge. No way could I see that corner station, when I passed Eric. He was coming back on track between me and the station.
Oh well.
wheel

Walther
06-28-2010, 04:59 PM
On a lighter note:

I really like McD's new paint scheme. Sharp!!

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 05:07 PM
I might point out that WeatherTech sponsors Andy and sponsored the race, and fed a bunch of folks on Saturday night. All the WeatherTech products are made in the US. In addition, they only use tools and equipment made in the US. The company and its owner are huge supporters of SCCA and other racing. So, if you need any of the products they make, it is good for us all if you give strong consideration to buying from WeatherTech. Disclaimer....They don't sponsor me.
wheel

wre46
06-28-2010, 05:40 PM
Funny that he races a Ferrari. heres a guy that needs to be in AS. and yes, I have all his products in my trucks!

Walther
06-28-2010, 06:00 PM
So, if you need any of the products they make, it is good for us all if you give strong consideration to buying from WeatherTech.
wheel

Been there, done that.

But back on my favorite rant- I was reading the updates and so forth and thinking to myself; "Man, that sounds like fun. I really need to bite the financial bullet and go race with those fellas one day, at least to say I did it." Then I read the aftermath of the Sprints and remember the debacle at the R/O's. Jim, I admire you for remaining composed during all that. (you were, right?) Had I dropped several K to make it there for THAT mess, I wouldn't have been. You're a better man, out of the Tom Ellis mold.

Still, I'm glad nobody was seriously injured.

thomas toth
06-28-2010, 06:08 PM
Great video...if you look at the rear camera going into 3 on lap 2 you can see the Ferrari blow his motor. And how about that Solstice???? Sure was smart that GM did away with Pontiac.....amazingly fast for a T2 car.

Tom

thomas toth
06-28-2010, 06:11 PM
Fred...do you have the mess on your in car camera???

Tom

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 06:36 PM
The winning Solstice is driven by a friend of mine, Andy Wolverton. He won the Runoffs at Topeka when the 2nd place guy took out the leader on the last lap, and was DQ for doing it. Andy had a great drive to move to third and get the win. Since then he has been possessed with proving it was not a fluke. He has been working on that car and his driving like a maniac. He will be ready to show it all again at the Runoffs.

I'm not going to make a bigger deal out of this. I have plead my case to the only people whose opinion means anything (those fellow AS racers on this site) so I won't take it any further. Although I got hosed, it was just a damn shame we couldn't really race for 13 laps. That, of course, wasn't the steward's fault (although they could have black flagged it, and then let us run to the checker) just some pretty crappy driving out there.
wheel

nomics
06-28-2010, 10:58 PM
Hi guys, I just wanted to let everyone know that I am fine after my crash. I was on the inside of turn 7 at the apex and had a car on the outside next to me. The guy behind me hit me pretty good in the rear bumper. It was enough to push in the rear quarter panel. I spun on the grass and hit the concrete wall a few feet from the tires. Then the car bounced off the tires and spun me almost 360 degrees the other way. I don't remember that part but the in car camera shows it. They wouldn't let me get out and did the whole back board thing. I guess they took me to the hospital because they said I was slow to respond. I got a bunch of radiation shot at me and everything checked out. Thanks to Andy and Fred's crew and whoever else helped put he car on the trailer. It was in there when I got back from the hospital. It was a shame because the guy that hit me was just practicing and didn't even get on track until lap 2 of the race.
Matt Regan

jimwheeler
06-28-2010, 11:08 PM
Matt,
Great that you are OK. My issues pale in comparison to what happened to you.
We hope to see you back out there soon.
wheel

tellis#51sediv
06-28-2010, 11:29 PM
Matt,
I came by later that day but you were not back yet. Glad to see you are ok. Hope to see you at the runoffs.

Tom

Fred Hetherwick
06-28-2010, 11:38 PM
Matt,

We are very glad you are OK. You worried us man!! Going to the hospital at that point was the smart thing to do!

We did look at your car. We have fixed a lot worse than that. Actually we have built most of our cars starting from totals that had much more damage ( including the car Andy is currently driving!) I know we aren't exactly in your back yard, but if you want it fixed right at a reasonable cost call Andy. We will take care of you.

Fred :cheers::cheers:

Fred Hetherwick
06-28-2010, 11:48 PM
Tom,

I am only filming to the front and got some of it. The incident just beyond turn three is troubling, but the inital yellow was for the car off in three. The pass to the right as we were avoiding spinning Camaros was ill advised, but probably not in the truest sense of the word " passing under the yellow ."

I saw a lot worse through the race. Wheel's deal was beyond belief considering what had been going on around the track.

ASGTO
06-29-2010, 12:24 AM
Hey Man. Glad you were ok after your crash!


How does a T1 Ferrari get passed my many T2 cars?

Dawson Motorsports
06-29-2010, 05:27 PM
Matt, Glad your OK.
Question for thought: How come a Ferrari gets treated like it's going to break in two after going into the gravel pit at 1?
If that car was an AS car they would stick the forks in it and just drag it out. Not caring if they did any other damage or not.
Now onto the corner workers. God love them I really think they do a tremendous job, but some of them during the race didn't have a clue.
Either 1 flag, no flag, or all the flags.
And the guy that may have hit Matt, he's not real sure about a full course yellow also. Because he tried to pass me on the yellows.
He was running in STU. There were about 5 STU's in front of me having a good battle, I would of let him around at the green.
During the yellows he almost collected 3 cars trying to get the jump. And he is an official also, he should know better.
He should read the book that he helps write.
Ok, enough of that stuff, great seeing everyone again, can't wait til Sept.
Chuck

Danny"TheKraken"Richardson
06-29-2010, 06:15 PM
aint no italian ladies, stus, and t2s in sept :cheers:

Ted Johnson
06-29-2010, 11:37 PM
You can hear Andys motor along side this t1 vette through turn 1 on the start. Pretty cool until it all goes wrong. Twice.

http://vimeo.com/12941616

andy mcdermid
06-30-2010, 04:11 PM
Dennis Valet Please PM me asap,Thanks.
Thanks for the Cool pics:thumbsup:

jimwheeler
07-01-2010, 03:34 PM
They revised the results and moved me up one spot, to 7th, so I only lost two positions for my pass under yellow. Sorry Freddy.
wheel

thomas toth
07-01-2010, 05:41 PM
I can't believe they are still dicking around with it!

Tom
#38 Camaro

Fred Hetherwick
07-01-2010, 05:47 PM
Seventh or eighth doesn't matter that much to me and you were in front of me all day. I am glad they got it almost right. I want to beat you on the track not inherit the position because of bullshit. I just wish we had actually gotten the chance to race instead to dealing with all the shittin yellows!

jimwheeler
07-01-2010, 07:30 PM
Fred,
I'm with you on all counts. I have been racing since 1975, that's 35 years, and this is my first bust for passing under the yellow. I drive hard, but I just don't pass under the yellow.
Pretty hard not to, in this race. At least, at the Runoffs, we will all be out there in one group, with no Ferraris and BMWs to get in our way.
wheel

thomas toth
07-01-2010, 08:29 PM
Amen....that wasn't a race.....I don't know what you would call it. Even watching the videos I still don't understand why the cars in front of us just didn't GO! It looked pathetic at best.

Tom
#38 Camaro

jimwheeler
07-01-2010, 09:34 PM
As an interesting aside. In the last two races, at Road America, I have finished:

8th
4th
7th

5th
8th
7th

Ultimately finishing 7th at both the Runoffs and the Sprints. Now, something is wrong with the system.
wheel

tbowers
07-01-2010, 11:43 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmFln_NufRs

Here is a video I found from a T2 350Z. It is a great shot of the Corvette side-swiping the BMW and Mustang in turn 3.

I am still trying to understand what he was thinking.:confused:

Todd

t4wallace
07-02-2010, 09:07 AM
Ultimately finishing 7th at both the Runoffs and the Sprints. Now, something is wrong with the system.
wheel
Wheel, repeat after me: I WAS SEVENTH! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyr6VDaaWJE) I am not saying that's how Wheel drives, but it sure sounds like this guy might have been there this weekend.

I am still trying to understand what he was thinking.:confused:

Todd
He's thinking: "I just KNOW this race is only gunna be 3 laps long and I have to get ALL those spots back that I lost in 5. And I gotta do it now!"

I'm not saying he should pull over, but the BMW didn't exactly share the track. Maybe I'm different, but when a faster car is coming thru, I try to make room without screwing myself and there was 1/2 a lane left there. That could have been much worse.

I think someone needs to check what's in the water. Or the Perrier, in the case of the Ferrari.

jimwheeler
07-02-2010, 09:18 AM
T.
That is still one of the funniest videos out there. That guy turned out to be a pretty good driver.
How many passes under yellow in that T2 Sprints video?
wheel

t4wallace
07-02-2010, 09:36 AM
T.
That is still one of the funniest videos out there. That guy turned out to be a pretty good driver.
How many passes under yellow in that T2 Sprints video?
wheel
Dude -- waaaaay to many. The more video that gets posted, the more I cringe... The worst so far is the BMW that went around you in carousel. That driver needs to be sat down for a few races. I know it's easy to miss a yellow, but when you have 20 mph on TWO cars from a faster class, the first thing I think is ":censored:, did I miss a yellow, or worse a black flag all!" Oh well, it IS club racing after all.

Matt, late to the party, but good to hear you're OK and that you have some "help" getting the car back on the track.

Mark Allen
07-02-2010, 11:33 AM
Dude -- waaaaay to many. The more video that gets posted, the more I cringe... The worst so far is the BMW that went around you in carousel. That driver needs to be sat down for a few races. I know it's easy to miss a yellow, but when you have 20 mph on TWO cars from a faster class, the first thing I think is ", did I miss a yellow, or worse a black flag all!" Oh well, it IS club racing after all.

Or how about this "Gee is that an ambulance/safety car in the middle of carousel with it's lights flashing? Hmmmmm...that's funny....boy I've never seen one of those so close to the outside of the track during a green flag. I wonder what he's doing? Maybe he's having a sandwich............mmmmmmm sandwich. Damn, everyone around me is so friggin slow, I wish I still had a horn, oh well, time to go, gas on, gotta get past these slow pokes, they're holding me up. F***ers."

Ted Johnson
07-02-2010, 12:32 PM
I know it's easy to miss a yellow, but when you have 20 mph on TWO cars from a faster class, the first thing I think is ":censored:, did I miss a yellow, or worse a black flag all!"
.

However, if you left that little yellow flag detail out in a for sale ad, you could sell your car for a pretty penny.

For sale.
T2 BMW.

Passes anything on track at Road America like they are standing still. 20 mph faster than any top A/S car. No expense spared. Don't miss your chance to own the fastests t2 car in the world. Fully sorted. Sorta..

100 billion dollars. mu ha ha ha ha!!!

thomas toth
07-02-2010, 04:44 PM
Mark...I can understand the BMW driver's confusion.....the Ambulance could have been an STO car, seems like just about everything fits into that class.

Tom
#38 Camaro

jimwheeler
07-02-2010, 04:47 PM
Tom,
Now that's funny.

thomas toth
07-02-2010, 08:03 PM
Now if you want to see a pass under the yellow check out the video from the Nissan coming out of 3. You can see the corner worker franticly waving the yellow....Fred and I both slow and go FAR left (like on the grass) to avoid Vickerman who is sitting sideways on the track. Both Dave V and the Nissan keep in it coming out of 3 and pass me way before Vickerman's car and Dave has enough speed to pass Fred as he is coming back on the track attempting to regain control. In my opinion that was a very unsafe move.

Tom
#38 Camaro

thomas toth
07-02-2010, 08:26 PM
If you watch the same Nissan Video you can see the #73 Mustang pass David V. coming out of 5 before the Corvette spin on lap #1. Once again racing and passing past a waving yellow.

Tom
#38 Camaro

nape
07-03-2010, 01:52 AM
Until I watched the T2 video, I thought this must've been a rain race you guys were talking about. I've driven at RA in fog and rain and not seen that much jackass-ery.

That video is incredible. I hope someone talked to all those knuckle heads and told them that plastic trophies and medals aren't worth that much.

TJ Bain
NASA American Iron Firebird #134

jimwheeler
07-07-2010, 08:46 PM
My feelings about the Sprints have mellowed a bit. I got an email from the Chief Steward, Mike Smith, after I expressed my displeasure with my experience. As a racer, I don't always think about how the other folks involved in an event are dealing with what is going on. There were almost as many requests for action, at the Sprints, as the stewards have to deal with at the Runoffs. Certainly, in our race, the workers and stewards were having to deal with a track full of maniacs. Anyone looking at the videos has to realize that there was a bunch of shit going down.
That is part of the reason that my bit dropped through the cracks and took far longer than it should have taken.
I'm still not happy with any of it, but I do understand it a bit better, and I am willing to move on without any feelings that I was picked on. I should have appealed the decision. I think I would have prevailed. That is on me, nobody else.
wheel

King Matt
07-07-2010, 09:06 PM
As a racer, I don't always think about how the other folks involved in an event are dealing with what is going on.
True dat, bro. A friend of mine who pitted with me was in that race and finished fourth in SPU. He apparently was one of the few people who had a relatively uneventful race and was quite happy with his outcome. I ran in the FV group and we had a split start with the F500s, which avoided the problems we often have with the slow F500s. Even as a backmarker in FV, I had trouble with a couple of slow 500s in both Qual sessions (how a guy can consistently be 20-25 seconds off the pace is beyond me!) Other than that, I have to say that this year's Sprints was possibly the most enjoyable race weekend I have ever had.

Mark Allen
07-07-2010, 11:16 PM
Hey Wheel, if it's any consolation I work very closely with a guy who is very active in flagging and communications (although he wasn't at the sprints). He's flagged everything from the runoffs, to regionals, to CART everywhere including at surfers paradise AU, ALMS, 24 hrs of Sebring (you get the idea). Played the chase car footage of your incident for him. His call (if he was flagging turn 6) was that he would have called in a pass under yellow (as is required) and then qualified it with the fact that he was the first yellow station and that he didn't think that the driver could see the flag due to the cloud from the off track incident. In other words, he would have given you a pass.

Don't know if that gives you piece of mind, just FYI.

Mark

jimwheeler
07-07-2010, 11:31 PM
Mark,
Appreciate it. That is exactly what happened. Dust, car coming back on at a slow speed, waving out the driver's window. I'm looking at the guy in front of me and the apex. Never saw the double yellow until the third time watching the video.
wheel

Talladega
07-08-2010, 08:03 AM
I talked with Joel Lipperini and said there was a good "Burn Down '' for
walking RA after hours and talking with Chief Stewart, but im going by 'hear say'' but have Known Joel since 1984-5 doing Solo II and Solo I till 1993when i started racing A/S.

Joels Mom and Dad were the RE of our region and were very active in Solo I and II.
Dan and Carol would watch my Children when i did Solo 1 and II while i made my runs, let me be last and first running so i could get back to my 1 1/2 and 3 year old kids.
And alot more all these Years as a member in NESCCA.

Joel said they suspened his lis for 60 days, but appeled it , and than if wrong
they can take lis when stewerts want it, for ?

Was just told that 4 of them walked track, and if i no Joel, the were marking and kicking dirt,drawing on track, and kicking tires,
BAD BOY,,,,And i no he reads Sups,

I always thought that you could walk track ,unless in sups, bikes,... arn't allowed on track , but walking?
RA is long, maybe they figure the SCCA people can't walk that far in a nite after Beer,,,?

Sorry if i didn't read the other posts but just wanted to fire away before it gets hot, and can't find spell check,
Dam and its only 7am,,lol:censored:

T

ERVRCG
07-08-2010, 09:02 AM
Hey Wheel, if it's any consolation I work very closely with a guy who is very active in flagging and communications (although he wasn't at the sprints). He's flagged everything from the runoffs, to regionals, to CART everywhere including at surfers paradise AU, ALMS, 24 hrs of Sebring (you get the idea). Played the chase car footage of your incident for him. His call (if he was flagging turn 6) was that he would have called in a pass under yellow (as is required) and then qualified it with the fact that he was the first yellow station and that he didn't think that the driver could see the flag due to the cloud from the off track incident. In other words, he would have given you a pass.

Don't know if that gives you piece of mind, just FYI.

Mark


Unfortunate as it all was...turn 7 called in the pass...just for the records.

jimwheeler
07-08-2010, 09:17 AM
I understand. They didn't see the point by, they didn't see the others passing, they just saw the end of my pass. In their field of view, I passed under yellow. That is why I should have appealed the ruling. They didn't have all the information, they just called in what they saw.
wheel

King Matt
07-08-2010, 12:35 PM
Joel said they suspened his lis for 60 days, but appeled it , and than if wrong
they can take lis when stewerts want it, for ?
I didn't see anything preventing it in the online Supps, Participant Info, or Rules of RA, but that never stopped anyone from making up a rule on the spot. But it seems like a pretty harsh penalty whether it's allowed or not...

Scott Schweitzer
07-08-2010, 03:07 PM
I have gotten escorted off RA the last 2 times I have tried to walk the track. Both times we started between turns 3 - 5 and usually by the hurry downs a security guard in a golf cart will catch up and tell you to get off. Last guard told me they have a closed circuit camera set up to monitor the track ever since someone snuck out and painted a bunch of stuff on the track the night before a live telecast. So now we can't walk the track.

That's OK i guess. I always had a hard time carrying enough beer to make it all 4 miles :cheers:

KW78
07-08-2010, 03:21 PM
Yeah well, that's complete crap.

Once again, whoever is negotiating with RA for its use on the behalf of the SCCA needs to get this done. Sprints and Runoffs.

Not only should we be able to walk the track, we should be able to take the golf cart w. a 10 or 15 mph speed limit. (Giving us half a chance to process it)

You can't hold a national club event where you are hoping to draw from the corners of the country, and not let the drivers inspect the track, look over the layout and the pavement, and the runoff area.

Its not like a pro series coming thru there on a regular basis, where btw they do get to walk the track and take scooters around.... You have club racers showing up, only to have nearly the most important part of the prep to drive safely, the mental part, eliminated.

Kyle