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jimwheeler
08-17-2009, 11:49 AM
It rained a lot at MAM and made Q and R both interesting. We were group 1 and had a split start. Everyone qualified on A Hoosiers, if they had them, since it wasn't raining at the time. It was pretty damp and the times were slow, but not as slow as later, for the race.
Shawn Gray had pole, with me next to him.

Shawn
wheel
Chris Brannon
Tom Smith
Ted Johnson
Tim White
Kim McDonald
Bret Volkamer
Jack Martin, DNS, rear gear
Dave Gird,DNS, motor

After Qualifying, the rain stopped and I changed tires, only to go back to the A's, when it sprinkled again, then I changed to rains, when it rained harder. When I got to the grid, it stopped raining and there was blue sky around. Bill Gray and the rest of Shawn and Bret's crew jump to and changed me back to A's at the five minute warning.

It was a slimy, nasty, slippery track. The worst I have ever seen it. My car had a terrible push and I pushed straight off at turn 5 (or is it 6). The wet grass was an ice rink, but I didn't spin, just made a looooooong left hand slide and returned to the track about half way down the next straight. I was now DFL.
Shawn checked out, and I managed to pass everyone to end up second. Ted was running on 10-year old dirt stockers and had a brake bias that allowed him to spin three or more times. His first spin was while running second. Somebody kept going off and bringing huge quantities of mud back on the track. I expected Kim to charge to the front, since he is a dirt track driver of considerable experience. It rained, off and on, all race. The track never developed a dry line and I probably would have been much better off on the Hoosier rains. That's racing.
A lot of work, but a lot of fun, and a good turnout.

Finishing order:
Shawn
wheel
Chris
Tom
Ted
Tim
Bret
Kim

With the win, Shawn clinches the Midiv championship. I had a great season, battling him every race. Good times. Now on to the Runoffs
wheel

Tim White
08-17-2009, 12:13 PM
Shawn was flying, he lapped me going into turn 1 and if I braked as late as he did I would be in the hay at the end of the track property. Wheel, how old were those dirt stockers you gave me at Hallett? Watching David Long win the race overall in his EP Mazda and his fancy rain tires did make me wonder how the Hoosier rains would've worked.

The SM race was interesting, a bunch went off at 9 and were just burried in the mud. They black flagged the race so they could pull two of them out and the only semi-clean place was their windshields from the wipers. They had mud from 10 to 11, it was true dirt racing.

jimwheeler
08-17-2009, 12:24 PM
Tim,
The dirt stockers were old, maybe 8 or 10 years. I agree, it would have been the trick deal to be on the Hoosier wets. Who knew.
wheel

jkopp
08-19-2009, 09:26 PM
I've been meaning to mention something about the race that I thought was pretty cool. Wheel mentioned the Gray Racing team changing his wheels/tires over at the 5 to go. That was very cool. What he may not know (don't know if I remember to tell him) is that Bob Eddy (Cheif Steward) came over to Gray's team after the grid went out and told them that he was impressed and proud of them for the sportsmanlike conduct. He also said that while he watched it transpire he let the grid know that they would NOT be calling the one to go until the changeover was complete. I thought that was pretty cool of everyone involved.
:cheers:

jimwheeler
08-19-2009, 09:55 PM
Jeff,
I sat in that car, and knew that they had blown the 5-minute, and then the 2-minute and then it took several more minutes to get to the 1, where everyone has to step away from the cars. Bill's guys dropped the left side, and torqued the lug nuts, and the grid guys blew the 1-minute whistle about 2 seconds later. It really did give me chills.
It really says a lot about the folks that race and work in SCCA. I appreciate Jeff for his post for adding his comments. I didn't know how that last few minutes were just enough for those guys to finish the job.
wheel

KW78
08-20-2009, 03:52 AM
You know, I might of protested this if I was in Wheels position and the Division championship was hard fought.

Kopper, what did Bob say was the good sportsmanship? I think the good sportsmanship was from the rest of the field that did not have a pit crew. Basically, the Steward held the field to allow the winner to have the advantage of tire choice.

It may of not mattered to the outcome, but the proper thing would have been to let the field go and Shawn's crew to finish while the cars are on the formation lap. Shawn would have had to start last, but had the right tires.

I admit I am in a :censored: bad mood tonight, but this reminds me when I got bit by this rule in SM at Phoenix N/N... I had worked really hard, like with qualifying strategy, tires, and drafting to qualify row 2, when the day before I was 10th or 12th. SM was the first race after lunch. A T1 guy had a broken dragging exhaust on his vette they would not let race, so I put him on my back door and welded it up. I showed up at just after the 2 minute mark and they would not let me have my grid position, so I started shotgun on the field in 52nd( I think, or 48th) ... I finished out of the points.

I'm not opposed to cutting a guy a break, I just think if you are rolling the dice with a tire change then you should be rolling the dice.

Alot of the general discussions right now are about NASA vs SCCA. On one hand I think if we are going to have structured racing, lets have structured racing.... On the other, if all this is for fun and a wood trophy, then Bob was a nice guy.

If you're in a good mood this is kind of funny to watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyr6VDaaWJE But if your not, it is kind of painful. The grid worker made the original mistake, (Not sure if that is the person in the film), but then when there was an apparent mechanical issue, another mistake, then the problem started. The dirty looks and indignation from the worker is not a good advertisement for SCCA, although the worker probably works not just SCCA...

jimwheeler
08-20-2009, 08:01 AM
Kyle,
You misunderstood. Shawn's crew changed my tires, not his.
That is where the sportsmanship came in.
wheel

Mark Allen
08-20-2009, 09:08 AM
Interesting video. Based on what I saw, the driver did not deserve to have his novice license signed off on. The progress through the licensing is not so much about on track speed as we all know, it's about awareness of the rules, your competitors, safety, etc. When he plowed up through 63 cars on the pace lap from last to 10th he seriously ran the risk of wrecking someone who wasn't looking for a car running up through the middle of the pack.

When he didn't leave when waved out he effectively did not answer the bell, no different then being stalled at the 1 minute mark and he forefitted his grid position. Everything he did after that was seriously f'd up and I wouldn't want to be on the track with him.

Now that being said, like at most races, the grid workers should have been checking the sheet when he gridded and insuring he was in the correct position but he clearly knew there was a problem before the 1 min and should have waved over a grid worker to correct it before the wave out rather than trying to fix it himself. My view? He didn't know the rules and procedures and should learn 'em before his license is signed off. What he did on the track means the stewards were right IMHO.

jimwheeler
08-20-2009, 09:39 AM
That video was posted a couple of years ago on the SM site. It has become a classic. He has turned into an excellent racer. He just didn't understand the rules.
wheel

t4wallace
08-20-2009, 10:59 AM
Kyle,
You misunderstood. Shawn's crew changed my tires, not his.
That is where the sportsmanship came in.
wheel
The sportsmanship is cool to hear about...

Wheel -- the official held the grid while your tires were changed, yes??? To me, that means Kyle's point still has merit, just change some names around.

How does Ted put it? Just sayyyinnn...

jimwheeler
08-20-2009, 11:15 AM
Tom,
Good points. In the scheme of things, they probably were done with everything, except torquing the wheels by what would have been the 1, but it was really hard to tell, as things were very frenzied. Also, it would not have changed anything if I had gone out at the tail end of the group. It was just a feel good deal for everyone involved. Technically, the stewards can delay the count for many reasons. I have sat on the grid, on many occasions, for five minutes, after the 2 was called. What they didn't do was allow anyone to work on my car after the 1 was called.
wheel

jkopp
08-20-2009, 11:25 AM
Ok, I give up. Let's stick to structure rather than fun and sportsmanship. Yep, that'll fill the fields back up.

Jeesh! :eek:

jimwheeler
08-20-2009, 11:32 AM
Kopper,
You must remember, Tom's from the Cendiv.

t4wallace
08-20-2009, 12:34 PM
Kopper,
You must remember, Tom's from the Cendiv.
Great Lakes Wheel, Great Lakes...:D

The sportsmanship WAS cool, I agree. But did they change Ted's tires too? Grid rules, being what they are, have been structured for a reason... And I wasn't there, so I'm not speaking to the specific events, just the idea of the grid being held while the "sportsmanship" torqued the wheels...

Isn't fairness part of the sportsmanship formula?

To me, what Kopp is saying is the crux of the SCCA's current dilemma. The club needs racers and workers, but at what cost? We're racing for knick-knacks (however the hell you spell that). So at the end of the day, how serious is it? I want to have some level of comfort that a person didn't get a license because they showed interest, ran an HPDE and have a car. What that guy did in the video on the pace lap was moronic from a safety standpoint, but I understand why he did it. Structure helps reduce risk.

Good regions understand the balance, and it sounds like that was the case.

But if I was Ted, I would have at least wanted them to check my canopy weights, errrrrr, 14 year old Dirt Stockers for dry rot. :eek:

Yet another race results thread derailed...

KW78
08-20-2009, 01:53 PM
Kyle,
You misunderstood. Shawn's crew changed my tires, not his.
That is where the sportsmanship came in.
wheel

Jim, Thanks, I did misunderstand!!!

That has a whole different meaning and the sportsmanship angle is great!

Tom has a point about the names just being different, but in the case of Ted I would not think about a protest if he isn't in the heat of winning a points championship... Just my opinion....

Tom said "Good regions understand the balance, and it sounds like that was the case. " and that is the best point here.

You know the reason I replied to this thread, is that for 2 of the last 3 runoffs, Tom Sloe has perfectly used this rule, and it has helped determine the national champion, in a way. The first year, he showed up at the 2 minute mark for the race after a wild motor thrash that blew in morning warmup.... Smoked badly for the entire race, and eventually parked with 5 to go or something with a big lead. I watched very carefully to see if he made his grid spot by the 2 minute mark, after my treatment in Phoenix. If he had taken another minute and tightened the oil line, would he be champ? (Don't know if that was the problem, just an example)...

And then the changing condition race, where the FA were ahead of us, there was the last minute tire choice thing again...

BTW it seems that some regions use the 2 minute, and others use the 1 minute....

Kyle

KW78
08-20-2009, 01:57 PM
Ok, I give up. Let's stick to structure rather than fun and sportsmanship. Yep, that'll fill the fields back up.

Jeesh! :eek:


Oh no Kopper, we want it all!! :D Structure, fun, and sportmanship!! This is racing, the 80/20 rule the rest of the freakin world has to have to get by doesn't apply here!! :laughing:

Kyle

Mark Allen
08-20-2009, 01:59 PM
I'll maintain that once Shawn's crew changed him to dry tires they looked at the track and realized they should be on wets. So rather than change Shawn back to wets they changed Wheel to drys under the guise of "sportsmanship"........... :) :) :) :)

I'm just sayinnnnnn.......