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View Full Version : Pocono Double National Aug.15-17


hi7276
08-18-2008, 06:17 PM
Good weather all weekend.
Friday Qualify:
John Heinricy 1.44.702
James Brewer 1.45.585 (new Chevy 302 from Kahn Racing Engines)
Jerry Post 1.45.712
Michael Lavigne 1.46.969 (retired with engine problem)
Jeff Werth 1.47.885
Kelly Lubash 1.47.917
John Kohler 1.48.028 (only Mustang after Lavigne retired)
Evan Kesselman 1.48.641 (converted T2 Firebird)
Matt Naegle 1.52.729 (brake problems)

Saturday race: Heinricy led first (4) laps, Post caught Heinricy in the chicane and made the pass on lap 5. Post had the edge in the high bank with the Trapani suspension, Heinricy would close in the infield. Nose to tail for the last 11 laps, with Post the winner over Heinricy, James Brewer took 3rd.

Sunday Qualify:
Post 1.43.910
Heinricy 1.44.444
James Brewer 1.45.585 (from Friday qualifier)
Jeff Werth 1.45.839
Kelly Lubash 1.46.693
Evan Kesselman 1.47.238
Joh Kohler 1.48.028
Matt Naegle 1.49.300

Sunday race:

Post led all 16 laps in a hotly contested nose to tail race with Heinricy. A lot of attrition in the field with Evan Kesselman surviving for 3rd.

wre46
08-19-2008, 10:12 PM
Beautiful weather to learn the track. We used the Saturday race to test the car and got into a spirited battle with Evan Kesselman. Our team spent the better part of Saturday afternoon /night changing the entire suspension due to lessons learned during Race 1. Sunday 8am second qualifying went well. I gridded behind 16 GT-1, 2, 3 and 3 AS cars . We all took to a green flag course and I decided to drive to the front while everyone was warming and scuffing tires. This gave me a nice clean track and 3 good laps to prove our new setup was 2 seconds a lap faster then Saturdays (1.47.885 to a 1.45.839) Still learning the track, I decided I’d save the tires for the race. The race start was wonderful as I went from 4th to 1st by the first turn with Jerry passing me into turn 2 with John Heinircy all over my rear bumper. I was really surprised how close and cleanly he raced me and was impressed on his skills driving in the infield. He quickly passed me and I re-passed by drafting in the banking. This went on for 3 laps and while trying to stick a fender under Jerry in Devils Elbow, the car shut off and slowly drifted off the track. Luckily, John missed the back of the car and hounded Jerry for the rest of the race. John was lightening fast on the infield and Jerry was a rocketship on the banking. It was discouraging to brake and not be involved in the battle, but was fun to watch. Our failure…..a $17 shorted Master Kill switch. I would have loved to be the meat in that Gen 4 sandwich!

PbFoot
08-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Was Jerry Post using a 305 or 350 ci engine?

socalta
08-20-2008, 12:14 PM
ohhh good question...

wre46
08-20-2008, 02:15 PM
Was Jerry Post using a 305 or 350 ci engine?
We need to ask him. I had a 305 and could stay with him.

EvanK
08-21-2008, 12:28 AM
We need to ask him. I had a 305 and could stay with him.

He has a 305. He was leaving Heinricy for dead in the straightaway, and then John would catch him in the infield.

Good racing with you Jeff. However, I had a couple of runs on you on day one coming out of the chicane and could not close you at all in the straightaway with my FI 350 CI.
I have run Pocono many times and am pretty fast there. I had new Hoosier A's, weight (mucho!) put in the best places possible, wide track, every suspension upgrade there is, 4 piston brakes, cat delete, custom shocks, ride height lowered, and much much more and could not hang with anyone who had a decent motor and even so so tires.

Bottom line is this weight is a death sentence and there is no way to overcome it. This was the only track where I stood any chance at all of finishing well and I could barely eek out a decent T2 time.

My god if Lubash had anything even close to a decent tire on I never would have gotten around him either.

This car needs a 200 pound weight loss. Period.

I am not coming to the runoffs, I'm afraid the fuel cell issue has effectively killed that trip for me. I just can't afford the development costs and now this fuel cell.

Well the car is good for one thing, I could most likely punt just about anything on the track........:)

jimwheeler
08-21-2008, 07:11 AM
You don't have to have a fuel cell at the runoffs. You can run with the T2 tank

KW78
08-21-2008, 08:07 PM
This was the only track where I stood any chance at all .....


I would surmise that this track would be the worst for you, actually, with no start and stop and such a long pull that is HP not torque dependent. Running the long course?

Kyle

EvanK
08-22-2008, 12:20 AM
With the two tight left handers and one tight right hander in the infield, you would think that I would have an advantage with the supposed monster torque. Not so at this weight. Then I thought - maybe it's the weight not allowing me to get on the power right away, but alas, coming out of the chicane in 2nd gear, and then 3rd, and then 4th, and then having to go to 5th - cuz I have to....
We figured the car would do well from the bus stop on, but I was on Jeff Werth's butt up to the shift to 3rd. And then he ever so slowly walked on me.
Yes Kyle, this is the bottom of third gear we are talkin about in an LS-1 here which has prob picked up a few horsies from having no cats and I still could not close him.

Historically, The times at this course are always close. It's just not that difficult - except on your tranny. It's always been a horsepower course and I assumed that everyones reason for stacking so much weight on our car is due to the fear of the LS-1's power capabilities. Well this would have been the track to prove or disprove that. No one at the race can say that I was not on the throttle full blast and Jeff will tell you as we were banging fenders in the infield that I gave it my all. I never had anything less than a hoosier A on it's 2nd cyle either!

I have Dave Shotz on another forum telling me that I will never beat his times in his T2 car at any track regardless of what we do to the suspension as long as we are 3680. And he's right!!!!!
I am also hearing that my efforts are being discounted by AC members as I'm the only one out there and basically a nobody. Running 2nd,4th, 5th in T1 fields of 12-15 hardly makes me a nobody. And that if I stick a pro in the car, they will say he is sandbagging if he does not go fast. Granted this stuff is all rumour, but I have yet to hear any support from anyone but Wheeler on this.

Some of you guys are making more power than I am and you are doing it at 400 lbs less than I am. That's a fact.
I'm not asking for 400 lbs, but give me something.

I have bought a trailer this year, a truck, an 18k T2 racecar and then spent 15k developing it and now I'm gonna have to spend another 3k for a fuel cell which we don't need. And you want me to come to the runoffs and spend 8k there so everyone can see how slow the car is???

I have not formally asked for a single thing yet, but I am getting nervous as I have been racing the car since January and have raced in two divisions finishing 8 races and I have to start thinking about next year as January will come quick and I can't keep up the funding in this extended season.
Right now, I have no interest in running HPT, but I might be willing to come for the GM test days. That way some AC guys can see or even drive the car if necessary.

And if anyone has any questions about the level of the build please feel free to contact me offline.

EvanK
08-22-2008, 12:23 AM
I would surmise that this track would be the worst for you, actually, with no start and stop and such a long pull that is HP not torque dependent. Running the long course?

Kyle

Kyle, SCCA runs Pocono backwards from NASCAR with an infield and a chicane

jimwheeler
08-22-2008, 06:42 AM
Evan,
I really think you should drop a concise post to the CRB, with a copy to me, for forwarding to the rest of the ASAC. Your experiences are exactly what we need to get in front of everyone. The members of the AC do not consider you a nobody. I am not sure that everyone on the ASAC, or the CRB, knows what you are doing, although we have talked about the T cars in general terms. Most of us are working our way through the end of the season to make it to the Runoffs. As a group we have been dealing with the Edelbrock heads and a few other items, but mostly we have been trying to put together the best car we can for the Runoffs.
As you know, the T cars were introduced with the idea that the weight, etc. could be adjusted to make them competitive. Without any input from the guys running them, that's pretty hard to do.
So, send the request and tell the CRB about what you need. Can't guarantee anything, but that's the way to start.
wheel

EvanK
08-22-2008, 02:06 PM
Thanks Jim.

KW78
08-22-2008, 02:37 PM
Evan,

I agree totally here with Jim, including that we don't discount your effort or driving.

I am not sure where the $3K fuel cell is coming from, but last I knew you have 2 years to move to a fuel cell, and then for a camaro it will be a standard fitment like other AS cars.

I read Schotz's thread, and think he's full of it. He said it himself, he was .016 off Heinrecy before AS brakes or suspension. IF I remember right, he is right on top of the AS record at Phoenix in his T2 car. There are many more points to this, but it boils back down to what Jim said, you are at a starting point for this and we need feedback.

The one and only time I got to run pocono years ago, we entered the front straight, ran thru one, down long pond, thru the tunnel turn, and into the infield. I had heard they dropped that and run the infield and just corner 3 now. But that day, you were just foot to floor with no grip limit, but HP limit, in the Neon/Miata class...

I'd love to run that in an AS car!!

Kyle

EvanK
08-22-2008, 09:47 PM
One of the dummest things I did this weekend aside from not turning the camera on Sunday, was giving the camera away to a friend on Monday (back East). I decided to get a flash memory camera. So I have a mini-dv tape of Saturdays race. Of course it's in New Jersey. I'll get that shipped back here and strip some video onto a CD along with my letter. Soon as I find someone round here with a mini dv cam:(

I can't imagine making the tricky triangle any faster. All the AS cars are over 140 mph as it is. In 2004, the chicane was flooded and the T1 cars were hitting nearly 170 mph!
There was a lot of carnage as there always is in NEDIV. Just while I was watching, a Honda S200 pierced the guardrail down in turn 1. They had to re weld that sucker costing us all shorter qual sessions on Friday.
Then a T3 Subaru rolled down by the chicane - I think. That car is totalled.
The usual pile of open wheel fiberglass. The only cars that didn't get hurt were the wreck Miatas - How bout that for irony!

As far as the fuel cell goes, It's in Fastrack this month that all AS cars must have it by 11/1/08 so I assume that means me.
I figure 1100.00 for an ATL cell, I'l definitely need a bosch high volume pump because of the injection system, braided lines, fabricating rails to attach, and then we gotta move the weight to where the stock tank is and discard that.
Sounds like 3k to me.
The car has to stay in PA until this stuff gets done. That's why the runoffs are out. I need that car tiptop for January and I'm only driving from PA to AZ once. I'm hoping to do a regional at NJ motorsports park in Oct though for some final tweaking.