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View Full Version : Hallett National Race 4-14-08


ASGTO
04-14-2008, 01:16 AM
My son and I got to Hallett at 6:00 pm on Friday. He and I had been wanting to camp and decided to do it at the Hallett race. We had the grassy knoll hilltop all to ourselves. Now when I say camp.........I mean tent and sleeping bag. Now Friday night it was 34-36 degrees. Most people would learn their lesson and do something new on Sat. Not us! It was 30-32 degrees on Sat night and we did the tent and sleeping bag again. At 4:30am on Sunday we were too cold to sleep and decided to go ahead and start our day with a hot shower at the track facilities. We then sat in the "running" truck until 7:00am and had breakfast at the track (very good).

I don't normally go out for the regionals but since so much was different on the balance and suspension of the GTO, I decided that it was a must. I went out on my 07 Runoff tires to get a feel of the car in both the Regional Qualifying and the Regional race (only did 5 or so laps). I believe I was somewhere in the 1:29's. I knew with new sticker Kumho's that there would be a couple seconds knocked off.

Qualifying times for the National were:


1. Jim Wheeler 1:26.0
2. Chris Brannon 1:27.1
3. Scott Davie 1:28.1
4. Tim White 1:32.1
5. Jude Rudder 1:33.9
6. Bill Tucker 1:37.5

Tucker had some type of throttle linkage problem. (I think it was sticking)


During the Start of the race, Wheeler and I had all kinds of E-production cars that were within a .5 second of us to share track space with. Start was crowded but went smooth. The EP cars were faster than us in places and we were faster in places but it all sorted out pretty quickly. Wheeler started on row in front of me and got a good start. We were running nose to tale for the first few laps. I tried a different line than he was doing on a few corners trying to get a run onto the very few and small straights. We got side by side but I just could not get the pass done. I tried to outbrake him in the bus stop and we went side by side with him still coming out the victor......crap! Then going in to a right hander (I think it was turn 8), his right front wheel started flopping and then he spun off the track. Turns out he broke his RF spindle in two! wow and crapola!

Any of you that know me know that I don't have a two way radio or anyone to talk to for that matter, nor to I have lap timers or any data equip. in my car. Those that know me also know that I know one speed............as fast as I possibly can. The qualifying and race times should indicate such!

Sunday national Race results and times:

1. Chris Brannon 1:27.0
2. Bill Tucker 1:27.9
3. Scott Davie 1:28.4
4. Tim White 1:30.6
5. Jude Rudder 1:33.1
6. Jim Wheeler 1:28.4 (spindle broke during 2nd or 3rd lap)

I remember saying in earlier posts that my car at 3680 with the changes that I was allowed to make would be 1.5 seconds to 2 seconds gained at a normal size track. Hallett is small at 1.8 miles per lap. My T2 record was 1:27.9
I would say that my guess was pretty accurate. Now after running it, I think I will gain 1.5 seconds and Memphis and 2 seconds at Road America and Road Atlanta. I know myself and my car well and promised Wheeler and all of you that I would run the car as hard as I could. I did!

Great meeting all of you this weekend and thanks for welcoming me to the AS group. I have not had real fun in the SCCA for the past 3 years. If I finished 1st or last this weekend end............I had a great time.

btucker
04-14-2008, 01:34 AM
Congratulations to you Chris on your win and a race well run Bill T.

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 01:42 AM
Congratulations to you Chris on your win and a race well run Bill T.


Thanks Bill. Great seeing you again and great looking car you have! I am partial to red but more than just the color, that is a really nice well built car.

CB

jimwheeler
04-14-2008, 09:02 AM
Chris' report pretty much tells the tale. My right front spindle snapped off through the lower bolt hole (of the two that attach it to the bottom of the strut). When it snapped (on the #4 right hander at the top of the hill) I was a passenger. I really appreciate the good driving of all those guys who missed me. Tucker and David Long (in his EP RX7) came pretty close.
I drove it back to the pits and, with Robert Johns' help, I put on a new spindle and was putting on the right front wheel when Chris came down from impound. Robert was working in tech/impound for the weekend.
The scary thing was that it was half way broken for some time. You could see where it had been cracked long enough to have some rust and wear marks over most of the material. The bolt hole is off center and the clean break was only on the narrow side.
I hate to think what would have happened had it broken two weeks ago on the banking at St. Louis. My first mechanical DNF since the '03 Runoffs, (43 races ago) when a poorly clamped radiator hose came off. I DNF's the '04 Runoffs with a crash.
It was a shame, since Tucker, Chris and I were all able to run about the same lap times and Scott and Tim were only a tick off. Jude improved all weekend and made the finish.

wheel

Scott Davie
04-14-2008, 12:40 PM
It was a great weekend at Hallet very windy and cold as Chris was saying. It was great fun watching Wheel and Chris fight it out up front ( sorry to see Wheel break the spindle and spin off). I think it would have made for some great door to door racing if Wheel hadn't broken. I was turning some of my best times in my AS (still not as fast as my ITE car) until my trans broke (stuck in 3rd gear for the last 10 lasts). I was having problems down shifting from 3rd to 2nd all weekend long. This is a new TKO 3550 that is called TKO500 with about 6-7 races on it. I have asked this question before about these transmission being so hard to shift and was told that it was because of the size of the gears etc.

But since I am going to have to tear it down, is there anything that I can do (parts I can buy,etc) that will help in the shifting? Or do I need to trash it and buy something else? Go back to the T5 that I have up graded? I'm at a total lose.

Bill great race, I wouldn't have been able to hold you off even if I wasn't having trouble with my gear box. Good job to Tim and Jude, Tim was having trouble with a broken strout and I think Jude was still having problems with over heating.

Nice to meet you Chris, but I think we will have to make a new rule (all GM's have to now drag a boat anchor).:bowdown:

Ted Johnson
04-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Sounds like a great race Chris. Congrats. I heard that you installed your own personal gym in the trunk of your car. Do you have a post race exercise plan at post race tech? :D Or you pulled a ton of weight out with gutting the car. Good job and see you at MAM

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 01:28 PM
great meeting you too Scott. I allready have the equivolent of a Fox body Mustang in my trunk........and you want more? Haha. How about I get to weigh 3000 to 3200 and I will put on a class four hitch and pull my 25' cuddy cabin boat?? Haha.

I just remembered the regular AS cars will have new engine packages sometime this year.......right?

I may have gotten the win this weekend but I feel like it was due to attrition. No offense but AS is known for that a lot more than the Touring classes. I am not glad that Tucker started from the rear but I am lucky. I know Hallett, Memphis and St. Louis very well and I am curious to see how the battle of the rear gear shakes down at all of these tracks. I still believe that I will be the only AS car at Topeka with a gear as high as the 3:46 butt I am actually having fun again in SCCA and am not going to worry about it.

I just don't want to get punnished for running as hard as I can and other racer's cars breaking. I can't swing MAM this year but Memphis should be fun.


Later
chris

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 01:39 PM
Sounds like a great race Chris. Congrats. I heard that you installed your own personal gym in the trunk of your car. Do you have a post race exercise plan at post race tech? :D Or you pulled a ton of weight out with gutting the car. Good job and see you at MAM

Thanks Ted I do enjoy working out. I think it is important in competitive racing. The inside of my trunk is comical though. Removing the interior and stock exhaust was a bunch of weight. The stock passenger seat was 75 lbs. alone. I won't be able to do MAM but will do my best to make the rest of them.

See ya
Chris

SedanMan
04-14-2008, 04:10 PM
I just remembered the regular AS cars will have new engine packages sometime this year.......right?
chrisThere will be an optional head, but for those that want to use it they will have to add 100 lb to their car.



I still believe that I will be the only AS car at Topeka with a gear as high as the 3:46 butt I am actually having fun again in SCCA and am not going to worry about it.Perhaps, but doesn't your car have a 6-speed? I wonder what the *combined* 1-2-3-4-5 gear ratios are for your trans+rear compared to other AS trans+rear combinations. Might be interesting. Also, doesn't the GTO engine have more torque than the typical GM 305 and Ford 302?

Congrats on the win and for having a lap time during the race that was faster than Wheeler's (on lap 2 before Wheeler broke....at least that's what it looks like on MyLaps). Also looks like your fastest race lap was better than your fastest qualifying lap, which might indicate that you're still getting to know the new AS setup on your car and you'll only get faster (Tucker and Davie both had slower race laps than qualifying laps). This has nothing to do with attrition, just you getting more comfortable tuning and driving with the new setup.

PbFoot
04-14-2008, 04:21 PM
I wonder if JH and Phoenix will prepare a 6.0 L GTO in AS trim for the Runoffs?Let the games begin.

Ted Johnson
04-14-2008, 04:33 PM
Hallett is also a short track. With a 4:11 gear we only shift into 4th gear twice a lap when going for a fast lap, and only briefly then its back to 3rd and 2nd gear corners.. I would guess Chris ran 2nd and 3rd gear at this track only but I'm not sure how much rpm his car turns so maybe he needed 4th gear.. It really doesn't let the GTO stretch its legs at all. Lots of braking and slow speed hard pull corners, with a couple of medium speed corners mixed in. No real high speed corners at all.



GTO gear ratios. 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 .84 .57

tex t10 2.88 1.91 1.33 1.00

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 04:35 PM
Bill
my direct email is trmclassics@yahoo.com
I would really like to talk to you in person asap. I guess maybe a phone would work for now. Give me a quick email and we can swap phone numbers.

I have always run faster in races than qualifying. I don't do a qualifying then race set up. If you are experiencing shock and awe because I ran 1:27.1 Q and a 1:27.0 race, then kick back and watch the show. You are about to be amazed this season.

Pretty much everyone in club racing knows that Kumho come on quick an fall off later on. The Hoosier takes some time to get to temp. Wheeler/ Hoosiers. Brannon/ Kumho. Hmmm. Mystery solved.

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 04:42 PM
I wonder if JH and Phoenix will prepare a 6.0 L GTO in AS trim for the Runoffs?Let the games begin.

I would bet money that won't happen. I can't figure out why there is only one (mine) in any form or class of roadracing.......since it is the car to have. Why did Phoenix never prepare one when it was the current model?

SedanMan
04-14-2008, 04:58 PM
If you are experiencing shock and awe because I ran 1:27.1 Q and a 1:27.0 race, then kick back and watch the show. You are about to be amazed this season.I don't amaze that easily, I just observe. :)

Pretty much everyone in club racing knows that Kumho come on quick an fall off later on. The Hoosier takes some time to get to temp. Wheeler/ Hoosiers. Brannon/ Kumho. Hmmm. Mystery solved.Chris, I've been on Kumhos for years so I know them well. If you've been using Kumhos for some time then you should know that one of their claims to fame is that they do NOT fall off as much as others over the long run, especially compared to the Hoosier 'A' compound (that is, if you scrub them in correctly). They each have their strengths. If the Kumhos fall off so much then why was your Lap 14 time a second a lap faster than your Lap 2 time? :D

FYI, I just ran a Double National on them and in Saturday's race my fastest race lap was my last lap. It was under the previous year's lap record.

So by saying that your qualifying times aren't what they could be relative to the other qualifiers, are you saying that instead of Wheeler having a 1 second better qualifying lap than you did that your 2 cars were actually about equal? :)

I agree, we can chat outside this Forum. I'll send you an email. ;)

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 05:45 PM
Hallett is also a short track. With a 4:11 gear we only shift into 4th gear twice a lap when going for a fast lap, and only briefly then its back to 3rd and 2nd gear corners.. I would guess Chris ran 2nd and 3rd gear at this track only but I'm not sure how much rpm his car turns so maybe he needed 4th gear.. It really doesn't let the GTO stretch its legs at all. Lots of braking and slow speed hard pull corners, with a couple of medium speed corners mixed in. No real high speed corners at all.



GTO gear ratios. 2.97 2.07 1.43 1.00 5th and 6th are overdriven.

Ted
how does my tranny ratios with a 3:46 gear stack up with the AS tranny and final drives? I had to use 4th for about 3 seconds on the front straight.

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 05:53 PM
your thinking old AS again. Ask Rudy from Kumho about the tire I am running and me running a 3700 on car. What does your car weigh Bill. Weight matters on tire wear......right?

We were in traffic for the first few laps. I am glad you pointed I was running good at the end. It shows I was running hard at the end too.

jimwheeler
04-14-2008, 07:00 PM
Whatever your opinion of the Hallett race, please do not factor in my race lap time in any discussion. I was in heavy EP traffic right up until the spindle broke and whatever my time was, was based on that.
wheel

Tim White
04-14-2008, 09:51 PM
My failure was not what I was expecting, I was convinced it was the strut but it was the hub. It basically was cut in half just in front of the inside race. The bearing are still well lubricated, the races are still tight and everything turns freely. Both halves will actually turn together when something catches at the break. I'll have to take some pictures, it is very odd. These are Wilwood hubs but I don't believe they make them anymore. They have been on the car since 96 or 97. Last year I started checking them after every session because I felt I was pushing my luck with them, I guess my luck finally ran out.

jimwheeler
04-14-2008, 09:54 PM
Tim,
I would like to see photos, but I think both our problems should wake everyone up to the fact that, after a certain number of seasons, even good parts have to be junked.
I am re-thinking every part that has been on the car for a number of seasons. Take them off, and use them for spares.
wheel

KelleyHux
04-14-2008, 10:05 PM
Tim ...

Glad you were able to diagnose what the problem was. You started smoking the left front tire about 1/2way through 4 early in the race, then as the later laps wound down, you had heavier smoke all the way through the turn.

Congrats on a great race with Scott on Saturday. It looked like you guys were really having fun.

Congrats go to Chris Brannon, but I'd like to see how he numbers the turns at Hallett. Wheel was right, he spun at 4 at the top of the hill. I'm not sure where Chris got turn 8 ... that's the entrance to the Bitch. :D

Kelley "gosh it was windy & cold at Hallett" Huxtable
PLAY SAFE

fairlane_68
04-14-2008, 10:11 PM
Kelley "gosh it was windy & cold at Hallett" Huxtable
PLAY SAFE


You got that right...lol.

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 11:10 PM
Tim,
I would like to see photos, but I think both our problems should wake everyone up to the fact that, after a certain number of seasons, even good parts have to be junked.
I am re-thinking every part that has been on the car for a number of seasons. Take them off, and use them for spares.
wheel

That is a great attitude to have. I replace all those wear items every year on all my race cars....usually right before the run offs. ie: hubs, axle bearings, carrier bearings, u-joints, tie rod ends, ball joints, etc. Now apparently, spindles should be added to my list. I have never seen one break that wasn't involved in a collision. Have you hit anything on that corner before that was a pretty hard lick?

ASGTO
04-14-2008, 11:17 PM
Tim ...

Glad you were able to diagnose what the problem was. You started smoking the left front tire about 1/2way through 4 early in the race, then as the later laps wound down, you had heavier smoke all the way through the turn.

Congrats on a great race with Scott on Saturday. It looked like you guys were really having fun.

Congrats go to Chris Brannon, but I'd like to see how he numbers the turns at Hallett. Wheel was right, he spun at 4 at the top of the hill. I'm not sure where Chris got turn 8 ... that's the entrance to the Bitch. :D

Kelley "gosh it was windy & cold at Hallett" Huxtable
PLAY SAFE

Thanks Kelly. I like to number my corners in mulitiples of 2. Sooooo, turn 4x2= turn 8. It is just easier that way. :thumbsup: Thanks for pointing out that I was a tired goober and screwed up when I posted that! :D Speaking of "the Bitch", my 14 year old son wore his "Hallet" shirt (that shows the track, corners and names of the corners) to school. His teacher noticed and pointed out the "Bitch" word dead center of his back! Unreal! He and I never noticed that on there. :clap: I am an awesome parent. I can't count and my kids clothing has cuss words on it! Thank goodness for Mylaps.com and official SCCA race results that no one can deny.

Ted Johnson
04-15-2008, 12:28 AM
Ted
how does my tranny ratios with a 3:46 gear stack up with the AS tranny and final drives? I had to use 4th for about 3 seconds on the front straight.

4th gear shift is about at the start/finish line.. So its about that long in 4th gear. Not exactly sure though.

ASGTO
04-15-2008, 12:53 AM
4th gear shift is about at the start/finish line.. So its about that long in 4th gear. Not exactly sure though.

Ok...that is about the same time i hit 4th at the start/finish and then drop to 3rd at the #3 or #4 brake marker.

jkopp
04-15-2008, 09:29 AM
So, first time out and less than .7 away from the track record? Damn! :eek:

Good job Chris!

-Kopp

BTW - Was looking at mylaps, why were you only able to pull off a couple quick laps during the race? Traffic? :confused:

ASGTO
04-15-2008, 09:57 AM
So, first time out and less than .7 away from the track record? Damn! :eek:

Good job Chris!

-Kopp

BTW - Was looking at mylaps, why were you only able to pull off a couple quick laps during the race? Traffic? :confused:

Thanks Jeff. Don't forget that Wheeler has tested there and done in the 25's. He qualified at 1:26.0 I was a 1:27.0
I gained .9 from my goodies at the 1.8 mile course.

There was a lot of traffic (both passing me and me passing them) and as you know tire management on a tire the width of yours with 3700 lbs is not as easy as one would think.

What kind of times to you think I would run in a old school AS car the caliber of Wheeler and Tucker's? I submit that I would be as fast or faster than I did this past weekend.

Missed seeing you and Mike at the track. I know work can interfere with playing sometimes but hope to see you boys at Memphis.

ASGTO
04-15-2008, 10:05 AM
Jeff,

I just took a peak at "mylaps.com" and started at the top competitor and worked my way down the list. Unless we are looking at different races.........everyone ran a few quick laps and 80% of all of our laps were slower than our best. No one had a straight line of qualifying laps....take a look even at GT2, T1, etc.